Guilds with 1 & 3/4" nut

[jfilm]

I'm with you again, brother.

When a fingerboard is uncomfortable for me it usually has to do with the thickness of the neck, or the profile, and on some really old guitars, the neck radius. Seldom the nut width. (I have a handmade six-string with a 2" nut that I love.)

A friend has a great sounding 12-fret Martin 12-string from the '70s -- I forget the model number. For whatever reason I find it a bear to play, and I'm still not sure why. The action is good and the neck seems OK, but it just feels "stiff" -- I don't know how else to describe it. It sounds great in my friend's hands, but I just can't coax music out of it.

Great topic - I've spent a lot of time trying to find the "perfect" neck on a guitar that also speaks to me sound-wise, and it's been a lot of trial and error. I have the opposite problem to the one started in this post, so generally look for short scale guitars with fast necks, and after trying many guitars, have also come to the conclusion that the neck profile makes the biggest difference when it comes to being comfortable with how a guitar plays. I stumbled onto my D-40, and it is a regular scale with 1 3/4" nut, but it sounds so good I think it's worth the effort to get use to it. My F20 is 1 5/8" at the nut with a rounded profile, and my F4-CE is 1 5/8" with a slim profile. The F4-CE is the easiest to play for me, by far, though I think the sweet spot would be 1 11/16" with that kind of profile, maybe a shortscale F30 from the 60s with a 1 11/16", for example, which I hear are out there, though most have 1 5/8". So the search continues. Though I also think if I practiced more and searched for guitars less, these small differences would iron out.

 

[wileypickett]

Though I also think if I practiced more and searched for guitars less, these small differences would iron out.

I resemble that remark!

 

[musicofanatic]

Is there really a significant perceptible difference between nut widths of 1+11/16" & 1+5/8" when you factor in variables such as neck shape, string spacing, saddle, etc.? Seems to me there are 3 Guild nut widths on the vintage acoustics I've owned: The wide 2" (classicals and early 12-strings), the "skinny" kind (dreadnoughts), and the "inbetween" of the '66 and later 12 strings. Personally, the thickness of the neck in combination with the general setup of the guitar has more to do with the playability than the nut width. That is to say, I don't think I could make a determination of how a guitar will feel based on nut width.

For me it is less about "feel" and more about "can I play a cowboy C chord and have the open strings not be muted my fretting fingers on adjacent strings?". My '67 F-50 is such an incredible guitar that I put up with the narrow nut (1 11/16") annoyance that might cause me to smash a lesser guitar upside the wall in frustration.

 

[adorshki]

Is there really a significant perceptible difference between nut widths of 1+11/16" & 1+5/8" when you factor in variables such as neck shape, string spacing, saddle, etc.?

There is to me, I have relatively small hands. My F65ce has a 1-5/8, but the dreads are 1-11/16. It takes a little time to adjust between 'em, and I actually prefer the 1-11/16, but the F65ce's more comfortable overall.

But the strings have to be closer together to fit the narrower nut width.
That can cause one to unintentionally mute strings if your fingers are fat enough.

Personally, the thickness of the neck in combination with the general setup of the guitar has more to do with the playability than the nut width.

I agree neck profile also affects the feel, as my D40 has a traditional "chunky" profile compared to the D25, and as I've gotten older it's actually easier to play, even though it has the same nut width as the D25 which has a "skinny" neck.

 

[adorshki]

my F4-CE is 1 5/8" with a slim profile.

As is my F65ce.

The F4-CE is the easiest to play for me, by far, though I think the sweet spot would be 1 11/16" with that kind of profile, maybe a shortscale F30 from the 60s with a 1 11/16", for example, which I hear are out there, though most have 1 5/8". So the search continues. Though I also think if I practiced more and searched for guitars less, these small differences would iron out.

Why my pipe dream guitar is an F47 with a shortscale and 1-11/16 nut. Never seen it on that body size, though, and I been watching for a couple of years now.

 

[donnylang]

Ah didn’t think about that angle. I guess I’d say my fingers are fairly long but also fairly skinny, so maybe I kind of automatically adjust without really noticing. I do get weird going back and forth between 6 and 12, or even multiple guitars (why I prefer only one guitar)- but I think that’s more a case of getting used to a certain feel and approach.

 

[HeyMikey]

My 2007 F47 Braz is 1.732 neck at the nut, but only 1.712 on the nut itself, so short wrt to the neck. My other guitar nut vs necks are more consistent. String spacing is only 1.442 and there is what appears to be 5/32 from the outside of high E to the neck edge, and slightly less from the low E. So I just ordered a nut blank and will see if I can bring the spacing to 1.48-9 which will put it more in the comfort zone for me. For reference my F30s are right around 1.76ish / 1.491

 

[wileypickett]

I started this thread to give players something to go on in terms of nut widths on different models.

But given how much variance there is between stated factory spec and actual nut width (at least in the era before CNC construction) I’m not sure it helps!

There’s factory spec, actual spec, and even, it seems, perceived spec.

 

[mischultz]

I have my eye on a 1 3/4” F30 Standard if I can move my Taylor. Might get itchy and grab it prior. It’s about the perfect balance of spec and value to my mind.

 

[adorshki]

My 2007 F47 Braz is 1.732 neck at the nut, but only 1.712 on the nut itself, so short wrt to the neck. My other guitar nut vs necks are more consistent. String spacing is only 1.442 and there is what appears to be 5/32 from the outside of high E to the neck edge, and slightly less from the low E. So I just ordered a nut blank and will see if I can bring the spacing to 1.48-9 which will put it more in the comfort zone for me. For reference my F30s are right around 1.76ish / 1.491

Member Marcellis had a new nut cut for his F65ce to try to get a bit more space between the strings, but the edge of the fretboard was the physical limitation.

This is also where having very good fret profile right to the edge is important when bending strings, which I do a lot. One of the reasons 1-11/16 would be ideal with a lower tension scale, for me.

 

[musicofanatic]

"...and even, it seems, perceived spec" Ha, very good! What I "perceive" is that there is no consistancy.

 

[wileypickett]

"...and even, it seems, perceived spec" Ha, very good! What I "perceive" is that there is no consistancy.

Which sort of leaves us right where we started -- you still have to try each guitar in person.

Not a bad thing -- we like trying out guitars! -- but it means that there's no real "Field Guide" for people who favor a particular nut width and want to know with certainty which guitars fit the bill.

 

[HeyMikey]

I think the value of this Field Guide or rather guidance is in knowing which models might have deviated from their spec, and perhaps during which time period it was done. It would make a nice sticky list for quick reference.

Then as it’s been said many times. always try to ask the seller to measure and confirm the things that are important to you. Some people can’t be bothered and you have to roll the dice, but others will often oblige.

 

[musicofanatic]

It all fits in with the randomness of Guild's model designation system (or lack of system!), no? Interestingly, I have sometimes found it difficult to get a seller of a guitar that I cannot see in person to give me an accurate measurement of fingerboard width at the nut. Some folks just do not have experience with/aptitude for making measurements in increments smaller than an inch ("Well, it's, like, a coupla marks past an inch and a 1/2 or so...") . In such cases I request that they lay their household tape measure or a ruler on top of the neck adjacent to the nut and take a photo. There are even some who cannot successfully accomplish this, and thus, someone other than I purchases their instrument

 

[SFIV1967]

...given how much variance there is between stated factory spec and actual nut width (at least in the era before CNC construction) I’m not sure it helps!

The list I had posted in post #2 was mainly Tacoma till today, so that is mostly CNC machines era where nut width should be close to specs.

Ralf

 

[HeyMikey]

The list I had posted in post #2 was mainly Tacoma till today, so that is mostly CNC machines era where nut width should be close to specs.

Ralf

If others with F47’s can chime in you may be able to add that to the list, unless mine is an exception. As I noted, I often find a slight difference in the width of the Neck at the nut vs the Nut itself. In the case of mine it is significant with the neck being closer to 1-3/4 but the nut cut short and closer to 1-11/16. To me the neck at the nut is the more important measure.

 

[musicofanatic]

"To me the neck at the nut is the more important measure."

Precisely, which is why I always specify " the width of the fingerboard at the nut" when seeking a dimension

 

[SFIV1967]

If others with F47’s can chime in you may be able to add that to the list, unless mine is an exception.

Yours isn't really a production model, it was a custom one, I think the purpose here was to point people to production models where multiple exist.
Ralf

 

[HeyMikey]

Yours isn't really a production model, it was a custom one, I think the purpose here was to point people to production models where multiple exist.
Ralf

Yes but it could have used a standard size neck. I’m curious to hear if others measure similarly. I know that my NH Reno F30R shares the same specs as my other NH F30x Stds.

 

[HeyMikey]

I just pulled my A50 flat top out to play after a few months in hiding and had to check the measurements. This one has to go into the 1.80 category with the Orphs. The nut is 1.811, neck 1.805 with a 1.557 string spacing! And, dayyum it sounds so good!