Guilds with 1 & 3/4" nut
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HeyMikey
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I’m going to bump this thread (which should be a sticky) to ask about Guild electrics.
Every once in a while I start jonesing for an electric again. I’ve seen several Guild beauties that had 1-5/8 nuts, which unfortunately is an automatic deal breaker for my chubby little fingers. Some were 1-11/16, but, as typical with Guild, often varied from piece to piece.
Where there any models and/or specific years that more often were made with a wider nut close to or at 1-3/4? If so, can they be added to the list?
Every once in a while I start jonesing for an electric again. I’ve seen several Guild beauties that had 1-5/8 nuts, which unfortunately is an automatic deal breaker for my chubby little fingers. Some were 1-11/16, but, as typical with Guild, often varied from piece to piece.
Where there any models and/or specific years that more often were made with a wider nut close to or at 1-3/4? If so, can they be added to the list?
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This question would be better answered in the electrics forum since there are a fair few members who only have electrics or acoustics.
Late Westerly and Corona Bluesbirds and Blues-90s often have very wide necks in the 1 3/4" range. My 2000 Starfire IV is 1 3/4"
Westerly Wood
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So Guild has done a fair share of 1 and 3/4 nuts. I wound have thought their acoustics were predominantly 1 and 11/16.
brw, played the Br a lot this week at my kids camp up in northern AZ. It was not much cooler which was disappointing. But nights were nice. Played mostly outside. Got several comments about the sound of my now 50 year old all hog flat back dread. Been liking the D’Addario EJ12s on it too. Medium 80/20s but they are not as stiff as EJ17s. Interesting. Thinking of putting them on my F30R. Btw, have not changed guitar strings in like 3 weeks which is pretty outstanding.
brw, played the Br a lot this week at my kids camp up in northern AZ. It was not much cooler which was disappointing. But nights were nice. Played mostly outside. Got several comments about the sound of my now 50 year old all hog flat back dread. Been liking the D’Addario EJ12s on it too. Medium 80/20s but they are not as stiff as EJ17s. Interesting. Thinking of putting them on my F30R. Btw, have not changed guitar strings in like 3 weeks which is pretty outstanding.
adorshki
Reverential Member
Well, predominantly (by sheer numbers), they were.
You play with gloves on?
I have *got* to try that... {hang on a minute...}
...Glenn, you're right! With the gloves on I can no longer distinguish the nut width.
davismanLV
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Okay all else aside, nut width is of some importance to me. My hands are large. Not huge and not small. But also my fingers are kinda big, not long spindly spider type fingers. So fretting and not muting next door strings is a real consideration for me. Of my 5 current guitars. One is my Washburn which is more like an electric than acoustic and it's 1 11/16". Not a problem. Then my two Guilds are both measured at 1 3/4" but the guitars are spec'd at 1 11/16ths. So the nut is spaced for 1 11/16ths but the fretboard is 1 3/4". Makes playing rather easy. Then my Taylor and Breedlove are 1 3/4" at the nut and the strings are spaced as such, so there's a tad of adjustment going back and forth. Maybe if I was a way better player I could be more fussy, but that's not my goal (either fussy or better, although I'll take better if it happens) so I'm good with what I have. Now I have picked up and played a few 1 5/8ths guitars and that's really just too narrow for my fat fingers. I already get A with two fingers. I've seen @donnylang play and I'd say we've probably got the same size hands but his are more spidery than mine. It's probably more about the neck diameter once we're in the 1 11/16ths to 1 3/4ths range. Wow, listen to me ramble on....
davismanLV
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Latex, or do you have an allergy??
Hi Tom. I don't go by Latex, anymore. You can just call me Christopher.
And you are spot on! I *do* have an allergy. I'm allergic to nuts.
From now on, it's the ski gloves for me. It's the only way to be sure.
MacGuild
Member
Okay all else aside, nut width is of some importance to me. My hands are large. Not huge and not small. But also my fingers are kinda big, not long spindly spider type fingers. So fretting and not muting next door strings is a real consideration for me. Of my 5 current guitars. One is my Washburn which is more like an electric than acoustic and it's 1 11/16". Not a problem. Then my two Guilds are both measured at 1 3/4" but the guitars are spec'd at 1 11/16ths. So the nut is spaced for 1 11/16ths but the fretboard is 1 3/4". Makes playing rather easy. Then my Taylor and Breedlove are 1 3/4" at the nut and the strings are spaced as such, so there's a tad of adjustment going back and forth. Maybe if I was a way better player I could be more fussy, but that's not my goal (either fussy or better, although I'll take better if it happens) so I'm good with what I have. Now I have picked up and played a few 1 5/8ths guitars and that's really just too narrow for my fat fingers. I already get A with two fingers. I've seen @donnylang play and I'd say we've probably got the same size hands but his are more spidery than mine. It's probably more about the neck diameter once we're in the 1 11/16ths to 1 3/4ths range. Wow, listen to me ramble on....
Good ramble. Similar here; runner's build but I have stupidly big hands (can palm a basketball effortlessly), so your post resonates a lot here. This dilemma is under-discussed.
My first acoustic guitar as an adult was a Yamaha 12-string set up as a 6, which is very close to the string separation you'd see on a classical. Originally, I was learning to play on an unplugged Fender Strat so I wouldn't torture anyone around me, but because I was effectively a beginner with no developed mechanics, I'd mush my fingers together trying to make cowboy chords, so a 12-as-6 let me make full chords without inadvertently muting strings. But... that was a workaround.
All of which raises this question: Is it just me or has anyone else observed that human beings in general are bigger than a couple of generations ago? Particularly in North America. And it feels like guitar manufacturers have not made that adjustment yet, they are still building mostly to their mid-20th Century specs, or earlier; unintentionally building for smaller people. Add another 1/8" to the average neck width today and I'd wager you'd have a best-selling design. Today you can easily get XL or XXL Big & Tall clothing that was far less commonplace to find, say, 70-years ago. But not everything else has followed suit. Some things, like computer & device keyboards, are annoyingly trending even smaller.
Is there some diminishing in quality of sound if guitar strings are slightly farther apart? No. Classical strings traditionally have greater separation than steel. Countless times I have heard folks lamenting that nuts are too narrow, but I never heard someone complain that there is too much real estate on a neck, or it was too comfortable to form chords. For someone with larger hands, narrower nut width can force sloppier mechanics, which affects quality of play and ultimately your enjoyment.
fronobulax
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Because missing the humor and taking something seriously is what I do, Scott Devine is a professional bassist who often plays with a glove on his fretting hand. Basically (see what I did there?) he has focal dystonia and the contact caused by the glove suppresses involuntary muscle movements.
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Blog: Why I Wear "The Gloves" (L#195) – Scott's Bass Lessons
wileypickett
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1&3/4”? 1&5/8”? 1&11/16”?
fronobulax
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Uncle Google has various answers but I'm inclined to go with the studies that say humans are getting shorter and that height peaked in the 1990's. I will also offer anecdotes about viewing uniforms and other clothing from the 1860's in US museums and my observation that the people who wore those clothes were tiny.
TUSQ and plastic, all sizes. Makes my hands wheeze. But evidently I am OK with genuine bone, or anything stupidly expensive.
I wonder if we could start a trend, making 1-13/16 inch wide nuts the next "to be desired at all costs" standard? I would suggest dividing the herd into two groups, adding 1-9/16 for even smaller hands, but let's not get ridiculous, right?
But seriously, Glenn (if I can call you Seriously), your former GF-60 (and *what* a guitar that is!) found a home a while back with another adoring fan. Apart from its obvious fabulous traits, he wanted that particular guitar specifically because of the nut width (I think it was the neck profile/nut width combination, combined with the magnificent sound, superb setup, out-of-adjectives overall playability, etc). He prefers the narrower necks, and that Guild had a narrower neck ( - I think Mikey had a question about the GF-60 nut width. This one was just a skosh under 1-11/16).
I am so proud of you, Jamie!
Whew! Thankfully, I was already born by then.
I know. Especially the ones in those photographs. They were all, like, 1 inch tall, or less. I don't think they could ever play one of my guitars, regardless of the width of the nut.
MacGuild
Member
Or one could argue height increase did not peak, it only appeared to have stalled. A 25-year old in the mid-90s was born in 1970; their parents came from an era when immigration to the United States and Canada came largely from traditionally White European countries and the population reflected that, and race-mixing was far less common. Since then, immigration patterns, population demographics and social attitudes have changed dramatically and more people are coming to the United States and Canada from cultures like China, the Philippines, India, where people generally aren't as big as White Euros. So when you "measure" a population whose demographics have undergone unprecedented change, yes, you'll get different numbers. This corrects itself, however, and in a city like Vancouver you can really see it, where mixed White/Asian couples typically have kids who are much larger than the average Asian, which will drive the national average back up. And so on.
Even if height did peak in the 90s (and height does not equal body mass), and came down a little since, that still makes the average person considerably larger than 70-years ago. Modern guitar design does not reflect that.
Yes, good point, Civil War clothing appears freakishly small. Maybe fabric contracting over time to some degree, too? But those dudes looked like jockeys. Look at documentaries shot in the 1950s, preferably in a large city with a good sample size. Then look around your downtown today. The difference is staggering. You get the same effect in Cooperstown at the National Baseball Hall of Fame; you see uniforms and shoes so small you'd think those guys wouldn't even get a shot at the Majors today. Mickey Mantle was 5'11, 190, and folks thought he was huge. Athletics aren't a fair comparison because athletes deliberately try to get bigger, but the Yankees have a kid that is 6'7", 285, in right-field today.
HeyMikey
Enlightened Member
Obviously one size doesn’t fit all, nor should it. My personal experience is that I most enjoy 1-3/4 for all around playing. Here are some examples:
My GF60R is a typical 1-11/16 at 169.5 nut/143.2 string spacing. I like it the most for chording, but it is a bit thin for me which causes more mistakes when fingering.
On the other end of the spectrum for 6-strings my A50 at 179.5/154.8 is a joy to fingerpick but chording, especially at the first fret, is more difficult as I don’t have large hands.
In between I have a few closer to the 1.75/1.50 range which, for me, is most comfortable to play. Those include the F30 Std variants, CO-1 contemporary series, DV7x series. All hit the sweet spot for me.
Simply widening the string spacing a bit, assuming there is room, will also help. I had a new nut cut for the DV70 with slightly wider string spacing than it originally had. At 169.9/146.5 it is easier to play than when the spacing was around 143.
Overall, I find anything in the 173-177 nut 147-150 spacing range suits me perfectly. Understandably YMMV.
If I was a better player and/or younger it probably wouldn’t matter as much. But neither of those are true so I am picky these days.
My GF60R is a typical 1-11/16 at 169.5 nut/143.2 string spacing. I like it the most for chording, but it is a bit thin for me which causes more mistakes when fingering.
On the other end of the spectrum for 6-strings my A50 at 179.5/154.8 is a joy to fingerpick but chording, especially at the first fret, is more difficult as I don’t have large hands.
In between I have a few closer to the 1.75/1.50 range which, for me, is most comfortable to play. Those include the F30 Std variants, CO-1 contemporary series, DV7x series. All hit the sweet spot for me.
Simply widening the string spacing a bit, assuming there is room, will also help. I had a new nut cut for the DV70 with slightly wider string spacing than it originally had. At 169.9/146.5 it is easier to play than when the spacing was around 143.
Overall, I find anything in the 173-177 nut 147-150 spacing range suits me perfectly. Understandably YMMV.
If I was a better player and/or younger it probably wouldn’t matter as much. But neither of those are true so I am picky these days.
The Mark series of nylon string guitars all had 2" nuts
Neal
Senior Member
As long as this thread is, I’m too lazy to see if I had weighed in previously.
My 1953 X-150 prototype has a legit 1 3/4” nut. LOTS of room on the fretboard, one of a number of reasons it is mine.
My 1953 X-150 prototype has a legit 1 3/4” nut. LOTS of room on the fretboard, one of a number of reasons it is mine.