In Praise of the DV-52

[West R Lee]

J45,

It's good to have you here....I wouldn't brag too much here about those other obscure guitar makers though ...just kidding. Welcome!

Dred, My DV-72 is the only "electrified" acoustic I own. Maybe I need a different pickup. Mine has a Martin Thinline 332 under saddle and I have a little Roland 50 amp, but the 72 sounds tons better through my Shure SM57 microphone than it does plugged in. It seems like the sound is just not accurate (distorted) through the pickup and "miked", it just sounds like an amplified version of an acoustic...with effects.

 

[Mr. P ~]

West,
My oppinion (that and five bucks will get you a cup of coffee) is that you are not going to get a truly acurate sound from a single transducer. The setups where you have a undersaddle and another (sound board transducer or mic) that you can blend are the only way to go.

Also active is way better than passive!! I have a L.R.Baggs Element Active in my D25M, and I will probably hear it through a good PA in a few weeks.
When I get my D-40 ready, I will probably install a B-Band A2.2 XOM. They sound great!!

 

[Mr. P ~]

West,
My oppinion (that and five bucks will get you a cup of coffee) is that you are not going to get a truly acurate sound from a single transducer. The setups where you have a undersaddle and another (sound board transducer or mic) that you can blend are the only way to go.

Also active is way better than passive!! I have a L.R.Baggs Element Active in my D25M, and I will probably hear it through a good PA in a few weeks.
When I get my D-40 ready, I will probably install a B-Band A2.2 XOM. They sound great!!

 

[West R Lee]

Thanks Mr. P, I'll keep that in mind. Since I don't play professionally, it hasn't been a real priority with me, but everbody loves great sound!

 

[West R Lee]

Thanks Mr. P, I'll keep that in mind. Since I don't play professionally, it hasn't been a real priority with me, but everbody loves great sound!

 

[dreadnut]

If I can offer my $.02... I wanted a pickup for my old D25M with no battery or equalizer to dink around with, 2 different places tried 2 different pickups and they couldn't get them to work. There were muddy lows and shrill highs, etc. etc. They even tried replacing the saddle... Finally, I took it to Del Langjeans and he installed an LR Baggs under the saddle pickup, done deal. It reproduces nearly perfectly through my Crate CA-125D. Scott Gierman at Elderly Instruments repair shop just "electrified" my DV-52 with the same pickup and the same results. The gain on my amp only needs to be turned up to about 1/4 way and it picks up and reproduces the sound just fine without a preamp. If I want to use a pre-amp through a different system, at church or whatever, I use a little Fishman belt-pack that gives me volume and equalizer controls.

 

[dreadnut]

If I can offer my $.02... I wanted a pickup for my old D25M with no battery or equalizer to dink around with, 2 different places tried 2 different pickups and they couldn't get them to work. There were muddy lows and shrill highs, etc. etc. They even tried replacing the saddle... Finally, I took it to Del Langjeans and he installed an LR Baggs under the saddle pickup, done deal. It reproduces nearly perfectly through my Crate CA-125D. Scott Gierman at Elderly Instruments repair shop just "electrified" my DV-52 with the same pickup and the same results. The gain on my amp only needs to be turned up to about 1/4 way and it picks up and reproduces the sound just fine without a preamp. If I want to use a pre-amp through a different system, at church or whatever, I use a little Fishman belt-pack that gives me volume and equalizer controls.

 

[SmithfieldFair]

Mic. provocations

OK - without belaboring something I've posted before, but to throw my $.02 in...I really haven't ever liked the sound of ANY pick-ups. Over the last several years, I've heard the Highlanders, LRBaggs, IBean, Fishman and so on and frankly, for me, while they sound better than the old DeArmond 'across-the-soundhole' pickups, the term "doinky" is what I have to use.

When I was working up in Nashville in the early 80's, the advent of the "blended" pick-up and microphone was coming in. ALL had a manufactured or reconstituted sound. Sorry, but pick-ups STILL sound like pick-ups and acoustic-electrics are an alien animal for me - a hybrid that generally only has a so-so acoustic sound and a so-so electric sound when plugged in. Still, it works for some and I am happy when you are happy because - hey! amplification is a necessary evil if you want to play for bigger numbers (or for people who can't shut their yaps during the music).

Anyway - George Gruhn and I have had this conversation and we've both preached microphones-for-acoustics for decades. Still, I'm hyperactive - especially on stage - and I need to move more than a stationary mic. will allow. So, I've got an on-board (suspended beneath the bridge inside the body) microphone (a Shure SM11 lavalier mic.) that connects via a flush mount XLR in the end block. I ge to move and the sound is accurate for the guitars. I'm using it on all my guitars and basses - throughout the band. In addition to the guitars listed below, our stage gear also includes a 90's M-20 and two (76 & 78) B-50s - all with the SM11 inside. No signal processing, no feedback, no preamps, no batteries.

It does take a bit of playing with the mic. to find the best placement, but the expense is about $150 total for the mic. and XLR connector. Should you ever get to hear Smithfield Fair perform, listen for the sound of the guitars and basses and see what you think. I'd love to know your comments, as we've been using this system (with no signal processing whatsoever) for 30+ years.

Dudley-Brian Smith
Smithfield Fair

 

[SmithfieldFair]

Mic. provocations

OK - without belaboring something I've posted before, but to throw my $.02 in...I really haven't ever liked the sound of ANY pick-ups. Over the last several years, I've heard the Highlanders, LRBaggs, IBean, Fishman and so on and frankly, for me, while they sound better than the old DeArmond 'across-the-soundhole' pickups, the term "doinky" is what I have to use.

When I was working up in Nashville in the early 80's, the advent of the "blended" pick-up and microphone was coming in. ALL had a manufactured or reconstituted sound. Sorry, but pick-ups STILL sound like pick-ups and acoustic-electrics are an alien animal for me - a hybrid that generally only has a so-so acoustic sound and a so-so electric sound when plugged in. Still, it works for some and I am happy when you are happy because - hey! amplification is a necessary evil if you want to play for bigger numbers (or for people who can't shut their yaps during the music).

Anyway - George Gruhn and I have had this conversation and we've both preached microphones-for-acoustics for decades. Still, I'm hyperactive - especially on stage - and I need to move more than a stationary mic. will allow. So, I've got an on-board (suspended beneath the bridge inside the body) microphone (a Shure SM11 lavalier mic.) that connects via a flush mount XLR in the end block. I ge to move and the sound is accurate for the guitars. I'm using it on all my guitars and basses - throughout the band. In addition to the guitars listed below, our stage gear also includes a 90's M-20 and two (76 & 78) B-50s - all with the SM11 inside. No signal processing, no feedback, no preamps, no batteries.

It does take a bit of playing with the mic. to find the best placement, but the expense is about $150 total for the mic. and XLR connector. Should you ever get to hear Smithfield Fair perform, listen for the sound of the guitars and basses and see what you think. I'd love to know your comments, as we've been using this system (with no signal processing whatsoever) for 30+ years.

Dudley-Brian Smith
Smithfield Fair

 

[Mr. P ~]

DB,
That advice is worth $2.00!! There is no question that a high quality microphone is the best idea if you can make it work.

What kind of EQ do you have to use?

Did you experiment with different open cell foam for Physical Equalization (filtering)??

 

[Mr. P ~]

DB,
That advice is worth $2.00!! There is no question that a high quality microphone is the best idea if you can make it work.

What kind of EQ do you have to use?

Did you experiment with different open cell foam for Physical Equalization (filtering)??

 

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

In my humble but infallible opinion, the world's best buy in a:

rosewood acoustic is a DV52

mahogany acoustic is a D25

maple acoustic I don't know

But I'm sure that the world's WORST buy in anything is a Gibson

 

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

In my humble but infallible opinion, the world's best buy in a:

rosewood acoustic is a DV52

mahogany acoustic is a D25

maple acoustic I don't know

But I'm sure that the world's WORST buy in anything is a Gibson

 

[Mr. P ~]

But I'm sure that the world's WORST buy in anything is a Gibson

I have felt that way for a long time, but recently I bought Jackson Browne's CD "Solo Acoustic Vol. 1". After listening to that disk and reading articles about that CD in Acoustic Guitar and Frets magazines, I have changed my mind about it. The sounds he gets out of live performance with Gibsons are amazing.

Of course with $500.00 Trance Audio pick ups and a 1/3 octave equalizer for each guitar probably helps!!!! :roll: :roll:

 

[Mr. P ~]

But I'm sure that the world's WORST buy in anything is a Gibson

I have felt that way for a long time, but recently I bought Jackson Browne's CD "Solo Acoustic Vol. 1". After listening to that disk and reading articles about that CD in Acoustic Guitar and Frets magazines, I have changed my mind about it. The sounds he gets out of live performance with Gibsons are amazing.

Of course with $500.00 Trance Audio pick ups and a 1/3 octave equalizer for each guitar probably helps!!!! :roll: :roll:

 

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

I was just kidding around. I think people's hearing varies as much as their eyesight, so not everybody's going to like the same guitar. A million Gibson fans can't be wrong. (The tone-deaf morons.)

 

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

I was just kidding around. I think people's hearing varies as much as their eyesight, so not everybody's going to like the same guitar. A million Gibson fans can't be wrong. (The tone-deaf morons.)

 

[SmithfieldFair]

Filtering Gibsons

Mr. P -- I have to first agree with you on the Jackson Browne Solo Acoustic record. I had heard great things about it and have always liked Jackson's work (I have 4 or so CDs of his on my desk here), but finally went to get it after comments made here by you and others. It is a tremendous (and funny) record and I have enjoyed it tremendously. I've never been a Gibson fan - just not what I'm looking for, but others do great things with them and Jackson certainly does. ...but I have to agree with you on the high-end amplification. One spends that much money and BETTER get a good sound.

As far as the EQ on my Shures - it all depends upon the room, the system and the ambient quality of the stage, audience and the backdrop. In general, I've found that a good board parametric EQ can offer the gentle tweeking from stage to stage. Occasionally, I'll have them slightly roll back the lows and low mids - depending upon the external/house speakers being used. With floor slant monitors, occasionally that's also the case. Usually, the clarity on the highs and high mids is excellent and no need to adjust.

In the studio, we've been using a pair of stereo Neumanns (can't remember the numbers...84s?) - little small microphones about as round as a quarter and about 3 inches long. One is aimed toward the end of the fret board and one at the lower end of the sound hole - both out about 6-8 inches. This gives an excellent flat response and true clarity of the guitar's acoustic sound. But live, the Shures are an exceptional little mic. - especially for true representation of the guitar AND the lack of feedback as I bounce around.

Dudley-Brian Smith
Smithfield Fair

 

[SmithfieldFair]

Filtering Gibsons

Mr. P -- I have to first agree with you on the Jackson Browne Solo Acoustic record. I had heard great things about it and have always liked Jackson's work (I have 4 or so CDs of his on my desk here), but finally went to get it after comments made here by you and others. It is a tremendous (and funny) record and I have enjoyed it tremendously. I've never been a Gibson fan - just not what I'm looking for, but others do great things with them and Jackson certainly does. ...but I have to agree with you on the high-end amplification. One spends that much money and BETTER get a good sound.

As far as the EQ on my Shures - it all depends upon the room, the system and the ambient quality of the stage, audience and the backdrop. In general, I've found that a good board parametric EQ can offer the gentle tweeking from stage to stage. Occasionally, I'll have them slightly roll back the lows and low mids - depending upon the external/house speakers being used. With floor slant monitors, occasionally that's also the case. Usually, the clarity on the highs and high mids is excellent and no need to adjust.

In the studio, we've been using a pair of stereo Neumanns (can't remember the numbers...84s?) - little small microphones about as round as a quarter and about 3 inches long. One is aimed toward the end of the fret board and one at the lower end of the sound hole - both out about 6-8 inches. This gives an excellent flat response and true clarity of the guitar's acoustic sound. But live, the Shures are an exceptional little mic. - especially for true representation of the guitar AND the lack of feedback as I bounce around.

Dudley-Brian Smith
Smithfield Fair

 

[HoboKen]

I've been playin' acoustic neigh -on 46 years now. But, it took my middle son going off to college to get his four-year degree in vidio and audio communications, to get me to really understand mics and live sound and studio sound production. He's taught me! (got something back for my investment!)

He's worked his way up to being a class "A" Engineer now. He's engineered sound for the likes of Judy Collins, The Smothers Brothers, B.B. King, Art Garfunkle, James Brown, the Pittsburgh and Trenton Orchestras,......you name the group and more than likely he's engineered sound for'em at one time or another. (I don't "sound" too much like a proud papa now do I?) Anyway, he agrees that for acoustic guitars, there is no on-board system that really does a quality guitar and player justice in the studio or on a live stage. He 's found the phantom powered Shure 81s work great for live sound. Judy, I guess uses 'em all the time now.

When Martin made a signature Series guitar for her, complete with anvil travel case in addition to the hardshell guitar case, my son was at the presentation of model #"1" to her and borught home her old anvil case that I now put my Westerly Guild JF-55-12 & hardshell case in for really hard traveling.

I played a local folk society Coffee House in Dec. and had my son as my sound engineer that night. (He made me sound better than I am!) He set me up with the same stage set-up they do for Judy and I have to tell you the Shure 81s are really something! I bought two of 'em!

I have been nuts-ing around in the studio with a Roland 2480 DVD recorder w/a Roland SI-24 additional interface board to make some CDs.
Between the phantom powered Shure 81s and the AKG C-3000Bs, I'm well pleased with the results for both vocal and guitar work.

Oh yes, as I've said elsewhere......."My Westerly Guild JF-55-12 is the best guitar I've ever owned or played!"

HoboKen