Just purchased - JF30-12.

[chazmo]

Welcome aboard!

Edit: by the way, Johnny, many of us tune down and capo up. That's what I do. But, if you choose to, there is no problem tuning a Guild 12er to pitch.

Does your JF-30-12 have a flame-maple neck? Just curious.

 

[irishjohnny]

Thanks for all the fast and helpful responses. You guys don't waste time.

Special thanks to Hans Moust for dating the guitar - I have a copy of your book on order, sir, and look forward to reading it.

The silk-and-string option for the strings sounds interesting, but I'll give a set of 9s a tryout first.

Now . . ahem! . . I hear the dire warnings about leaving a capo on the guitar - but, to be honest, the action is so high, and the capo screwed on so tightly, that if I take it off the neck I'll never get it back on again! We're talking HIGH action here and the only alternative to a set of 9s (on order) which I can see is further tuning-down another full tone. I'm loath to let even a really skilled tecchie get his hands on the guitar to lower the action, because the last time I did that (with my G****n J200) - and, yes, he was a real guitar tech - one of the best in the UK - it came back with the 6th string rattling a little. Lower action I crave, but rattle drives me nuts. I can't risk wrecking the great tone of this little sweetheart, even if playing a Bb in the first position is and will remain a pipe-dream.

I'd like to post a couple of small photos, and I have followed the 'Help' advice, but nothing is happening. Sorry.

Another point: the guitar smells as if it has been kept in a kitchen. Any ideas as to how to remove a slight "foody"-type aroma from the soundhole. Odd question, I know, but any advice would be welcome.

Finally, a quick question about laminated backs. The thing that really amazes me about this guitar is how the hell it makes the LOUD noise that it does, and produces such a great tone, with a non-solid back. I have a couple of M*****s and a G****n, and have always - up to now - sworn by solid-timbered guitars. Is Guild's penchant for laminated backs just to cut costs? Or is it because it makes their guitars structurally stronger? Or is it just that, especially with 12-string models, with solid tops and sides they don't NEED a solid back too? (I know that they do make all-solid instruments, but they are in the minority). Or is it just a tradition handed-down from Alfred Dronge and George Mann? Does anyone know?

OK - I'll shut up now.

 

[chazmo]

Thanks for all the fast and helpful responses. You guys don't waste time.

Special thanks to Hans Moust for dating the guitar - I have a copy of your book on order, sir, and look forward to reading it.

The silk-and-string option for the strings sounds interesting, but I'll give a set of 9s a tryout first.

Now . . ahem! . . I hear the dire warnings about leaving a capo on the guitar - but, to be honest, the action is so high, and the capo screwed on so tightly, that if I take it off the neck I'll never get it back on again! We're talking HIGH action here and the only alternative to a set of 9s (on order) which I can see is further tuning-down another full tone. I'm loath to let even a really skilled tecchie get his hands on the guitar to lower the action, because the last time I did that (with my G****n J200) - and, yes, he was a real guitar tech - one of the best in the UK - it came back with the 6th string rattling a little. Lower action I crave, but rattle drives me nuts. I can't risk wrecking the great tone of this little sweetheart, even if playing a Bb in the first position is and will remain a pipe-dream.

I'd like to post a couple of small photos, and I have followed the 'Help' advice, but nothing is happening. Sorry.

Another point: the guitar smells as if it has been kept in a kitchen. Any ideas as to how to remove a slight "foody"-type aroma from the soundhole. Odd question, I know, but any advice would be welcome.

Finally, a quick question about laminated backs. The thing that really amazes me about this guitar is how the hell it makes the LOUD noise that it does, and produces such a great tone, with a non-solid back. I have a couple of M*****s and a G****n, and have always - up to now - sworn by solid-timbered guitars. Is Guild's penchant for laminated backs just to cut costs? Or is it because it makes their guitars structurally stronger? Or is it just that, especially with 12-string models, with solid tops and sides they don't NEED a solid back too? (I know that they do make all-solid instruments, but they are in the minority). Or is it just a tradition handed-down from Alfred Dronge and George Mann? Does anyone know?

OK - I'll shut up now.

Johnny,

Of course, it's your decision about the playability tradeoffs, but I have found that I simply don't play my guitars when they're not setup reasonably well; I find this particularly true with 12 strings, but it carries over to all guitars. Indeed, you should not have to sacrifice tone to have a guitar that's playable. Unfortunately, the reason why your action is so high can vary and might be as serious as a neck which has pulled forward and needs a reset.

Maybe your guitar has dried out (common problem).... If so, the first thing I'd do is take off the strings and case-humidify the guitar for a week or two. If there's any visible belly or sag on the top, try resting some books on it while it lays flat and use a soundhole humidifier... I did this recently with a guitar that had gotten seriously out of shape, and the technique worked well. Wood will usually retake its shape (mostly) if that's the problem.

After that, if I were you, I would bring the guitar to a tech/luthier. The fret buzz that you're getting on your J200 is something that your tech/luthier should have been willing to adjust for you -- in fact if he did the work to bring the action down on your guitar, he should be willing to do that adjustment as part of the fix!

OK, that's just my "two pence" if you will.

Your question about the laminate back is one we've brought up before. I'd love to hear what other folks think, but I think the main reason that Guild uses laminates is because they like to use it for an arched back, and doing that with solid carvings is wasteful (material) and expensive (effort). In any case, it's worked well for Guild over the years.

 

[krysh]

welcome to the gang irishjohnny,
no idea about pices of wood with so many strings, but usually the guys here are not too wrong with advice.
.....more or less :mrgreen:
and if you want to know something, never ask me. hans would have to correct me again.

 

[hansmoust]

Does your JF-30-12 have a flame-maple neck? Just curious.

Hello Chazmo,

It definitely would have the maple neck with the mahogany centerstrip. During some periods the necks on the JF-30-12 could be pretty 'flamey' but most of the ones I've seen from that period had somewhat moderate flame.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[dane]

I’m in complete agreement with Chazmo, so there is no sense in repeating. As far as the guitar having a smell, I would just let it air out on its own. I’ve heard others suggest placing a few drops of cologne, perfume, or some other sent you find pleasant on a rag and drop it in the sound hole for a few days. I’ve never tried it but I suppose it could work.

I have a couple of M*****s and a G****n, and have always - up to now - sworn by solid-timbered guitars.

As much as we here love our Guilds (and we do), you may notice in our signatures that many of us also play other brands. So please don’t feel that you would be ostracized by mentioning them. Were not that up-tight here; one of the many reasons I joined this group. In fact if you would like to post anything about your Martin’s, or Gibson’s, or anything else with strings, feel free to post it here in the “Guitars & Other Stringed” forum.

 

[dreadnut]

I wonder about the arch-backs too, now that you mention it. It seems like it would be stronger, and there is no need for internal back bracing on these models. I've floated the theory here before that the smooth concave inner back surface acts like a parabolic reflector which focuses the soundwaves directly out through the soundhole.

Having played one for 33 years qualifies me to postulate all kinds of theories :lol:

 

[cuthbert]

Thanks for all the fast and helpful responses. You guys don't waste time.

Special thanks to Hans Moust for dating the guitar - I have a copy of your book on order, sir, and look forward to reading it.

The silk-and-string option for the strings sounds interesting, but I'll give a set of 9s a tryout first.

Now . . ahem! . . I hear the dire warnings about leaving a capo on the guitar - but, to be honest, the action is so high, and the capo screwed on so tightly, that if I take it off the neck I'll never get it back on again! We're talking HIGH action here and the only alternative to a set of 9s (on order) which I can see is further tuning-down another full tone. I'm loath to let even a really skilled tecchie get his hands on the guitar to lower the action, because the last time I did that (with my G****n J200) - and, yes, he was a real guitar tech - one of the best in the UK - it came back with the 6th string rattling a little. Lower action I crave, but rattle drives me nuts. I can't risk wrecking the great tone of this little sweetheart, even if playing a Bb in the first position is and will remain a pipe-dream.

I'd like to post a couple of small photos, and I have followed the 'Help' advice, but nothing is happening. Sorry.

Another point: the guitar smells as if it has been kept in a kitchen. Any ideas as to how to remove a slight "foody"-type aroma from the soundhole. Odd question, I know, but any advice would be welcome.

Finally, a quick question about laminated backs. The thing that really amazes me about this guitar is how the hell it makes the LOUD noise that it does, and produces such a great tone, with a non-solid back. I have a couple of M*****s and a G****n, and have always - up to now - sworn by solid-timbered guitars. Is Guild's penchant for laminated backs just to cut costs? Or is it because it makes their guitars structurally stronger? Or is it just that, especially with 12-string models, with solid tops and sides they don't NEED a solid back too? (I know that they do make all-solid instruments, but they are in the minority). Or is it just a tradition handed-down from Alfred Dronge and George Mann? Does anyone know?

OK - I'll shut up now.

Johnny, I've a 12 strings, it's not a Guild, but anyway my advice is to tune at concert pitch and use 09 strings. Alternatively silk and steel give a very nice tone to this instrument, I've tried the Ernie Ball Earthwood and they work well.

For the laminated backs, it sounds an odd choice, but keep in mind that the Guilds are arched, like the archtops. Today almost all the archtops are laminated and Guild just used their know how in making "jazz guitars" on flat tops.

In general, the wood of the back and sides aren't that important, Torres in the XIXth century made a guitar of paper besides the top, and it played wonderfully. Personally I'm a great fan of Ovations, I know that a lot of aocustic snobs don't consider them "worthy" guitars but I can assure you that my 6759 Custom Legend is the best 12 string I've ever played, so if you like Guild Jumbos, just accept their building philosophy (they make 6 string with the same architecture...the F-50) and don't worry about the "all solid" dispute.

 

[chazmo]

Does your JF-30-12 have a flame-maple neck? Just curious.

Hello Chazmo,

It definitely would have the maple neck with the mahogany centerstrip. During some periods the necks on the JF-30-12 could be pretty 'flamey' but most of the ones I've seen from that period had somewhat moderate flame.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

Hi Hans!!

Johnny,

For reference, this is my neck from 1994... I have to admit that this neck is probably why I was so taken with it and it's probably why I bought the guitar (from fungusyoung). I love it, by the way:

And, I'm also interested if the neck block has a stamped date on it like mine. I don't know if we nailed down conclusively if/when the Westerly folks stopped doing this... If you have a chance, next time you change strings (or whenever) have a peek at the neck block and see if it looks like this:

 

[cuthbert]

I wonder about the arch-backs too, now that you mention it. It seems like it would be stronger, and there is no need for internal back bracing on these models. I've floated the theory here before that the smooth concave inner back surface acts like a parabolic reflector which focuses the soundwaves directly out through the soundhole.

Having played one for 33 years qualifies me to postulate all kinds of theories :lol:

That was Charlie Kaman's philosophy: the Ovation bowl is perfectly parabolic and projects more than flat backs...as a matter of fact my BCS is as loud as my CV-2C, but the size of the instrument is about an half.

 

[cuthbert]

Does your JF-30-12 have a flame-maple neck? Just curious.

Hello Chazmo,

It definitely would have the maple neck with the mahogany centerstrip. During some periods the necks on the JF-30-12 could be pretty 'flamey' but most of the ones I've seen from that period had somewhat moderate flame.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

Hi Hans!!

Johnny,

For reference, this is my neck from 1994... I have to admit that this neck is probably why I was so taken with it and it's probably why I bought the guitar (from fungusyoung). I love it, by the way:

And, I'm also interested if the neck block has a stamped date on it like mine. I don't know if we nailed down conclusively if/when the Westerly folks stopped doing this... If you have a chance, next time you change strings (or whenever) have a peek at the neck block and see if it looks like this:

I want one!

 

[hansmoust]

For reference, this is my neck from 1994... I have to admit that this neck is probably why I was so taken with it and it's probably why I bought the guitar (from fungusyoung).

Hello Chazmo,

Yes, that is what they can be like but it's not the rule.

And, I'm also interested if the neck block has a stamped date on it like mine.

Johnny's JF-30-12 should have the ink-stamped date on the neck block as well. Even though it has a 1999 serial number, the date on the neck block should be from the last quarter of 1998.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[kitniyatran]

Agreeing with the arched laminate opinions offered, & saying "welcome aboard"!
I have a D25; 6 string arched mahogany laminate back Guild, & believe it is more powerful & "fuller" sounding than the Martin D18 I formerly owned. Projection & physical strength from the arch, lower cost & physical strength from the lamination; quality wood veneers, not cheap plywood.

I'm no 12er, but if the action is as high as it sounds, I think the guit Really needs attention; it may turn out to be a relatively minor fix.
And if it's not so minor, it almost certainly will be worth the expense over the long haul.

 

[irishjohnny]

For reference, this is my neck from 1994... I have to admit that this neck is probably why I was so taken with it and it's probably why I bought the guitar (from fungusyoung).

Hello Chazmo,

Yes, that is what they can be like but it's not the rule.

And, I'm also interested if the neck block has a stamped date on it like mine.

Johnny's JF-30-12 should have the ink-stamped date on the neck block as well. Even though it has a 1999 serial number, the date on the neck block should be from the last quarter of 1998.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

Yep - the print reads Dec 10 1998

The neck is not fancily-striped - in fact, it's almost devoid of curl.

I think the next stop is a guitar-tech!

 

[JerryR]

Hey Irishjohnny,
Can't help much with info on 12 strings... I have enuf trouble with six! But, welcome aboard!
Dave

Hey - that's my line :shock:

 

[GardMan]

Heaven help us Jerry, we're starting to think alike!
Dave

 

[GuildFS4612CE]

Johnny,there is no reason why you should have to put 9's or silk and steel on that guitar while tuned down.

I'm a vertically challenged lady with small damaged hands and I played an F212 for many hours a day for many years tuned down to D in all kinds of weather in the Metro's of Montreal when I was there...and the action stayed nice and low.

If you can barely get the capo on, then the action is WAY too high for whatever reason.

And if it is a major problem, stressing it further is not a good idea.

So, hoist up your courage and take her in to a good tech to be evaluated...that's not the same as agreeing to have the work done. :wink:

If it were mine, I'd want to know if it's the bridge, saddle, top, trussrod, or neckblock slipping, or....?....Before the problem gets worse.

Maybe one of our UK members can recommend a good tech to you.

If you're lucky, it might be a small problem.

Oh, and welcome! Pull up a chair. Set a spell. Enjoy the music.

 

[cjd-player]

Heaven help us Jerry, we're starting to think alike!
Dave

Heaven help YOU, Dave. :shock:

It's an upgrade for Jerry. :mrgreen:

 

[Graham]

Heaven help us Jerry, we're starting to think alike!
Dave

Heaven help YOU, Dave. :shock:

It's an upgrade for Jerry. :mrgreen:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Guildmark]

Welcome aboard, irishjohnny. Congrats on the JF30-12!

It just so happens I was playing one of those yesterday. One of our number, with the handle of california , owns one and I was visiting him yesterday afternoon. I'd played his before but not as leisurely. One fine guitar! He keeps his in concert pitch and there should be no worry about doing that. I'm more comfortable tuning down and capoing up, but I agree with GuildFS4612CE (Howdy, Jane!). It's just a matter of preference. All the advice from our Guild brethren and sistern in this thread sounds perfectly acceptable to me. I wouldn't change a thing.
So get that puppy setup and then let us hear her!

Post well. Post often.