adorshki
Reverential Member
Given that he favored F30's that would make sense. Never realized he had matching 12-ers though.
New here, got the Guild bug again... in two parts ;-)
- Thread starter Guildedagain
- Start date
hansmoust
Enlightened Member
If that's the correct number, it would make it a D4-12 from the year 1992.
Sincerely,
Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
Guildedagain
Enlightened Member
Dang, sounds nice. I didn't know J necks fit on there, go figure... ;-)
Man, maybe it's time to go back to roundwounds for a while, at least on one bass.
Maybe one day I'll look under the pickguard, the neckplate is 31xx91 which would make it a yikes, a '71. I was actually really hoping it was a '73, "the Ampeg" is a '73, '73 was a pretty cool year for me, 13 years old (Ok, I was 12, that's when you really lie about your age ;-) either in DC or Charlottesville VA, it was "interesting" and a lot of fun... we moved out west the next year.
Man, maybe it's time to go back to roundwounds for a while, at least on one bass.
Maybe one day I'll look under the pickguard, the neckplate is 31xx91 which would make it a yikes, a '71. I was actually really hoping it was a '73, "the Ampeg" is a '73, '73 was a pretty cool year for me, 13 years old (Ok, I was 12, that's when you really lie about your age ;-) either in DC or Charlottesville VA, it was "interesting" and a lot of fun... we moved out west the next year.
Guildedagain
Enlightened Member
Dank je Hans, that's interesting. Is there any rhyme or reason (well of course there must be) for this numbering system? It is not guitar #88? This make Gibsons numbering system work very well for idiots like me... ;-) The Guild system apparently assigns every model number it's own serialization? It's pretty admirable, but it is nice to get relevant numbers. Anyway, sounds like Guild marched a little to the beat of their own drummer...
Neal
Senior Member
You are just scratching the surface of the enigma that is Guild's history of model and serial numbers!
Guildedagain
Enlightened Member
Hey thx for the nod on "The Muff", it's the one with the really THICK aluminum sides, I've had this one for a long time... It's particularly good on the Bass!
"Made from Russian tanks", right?
;-)
That switch is a trip tho, and it's really quiet.
Quantum Strummer
Senior Member
I, of course, have no clue what this might be about.
:kiwi-fruit:
My own Russian Muff (short for muffled, right?) is a bubble font. Got it along with a big green Small Stone back in the day. Still use & love 'em both.
-Dave-
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Guildedagain
Enlightened Member
Hhaha, that's funny ;-)
Kinda reminds me of that "mole" scene in the Austin Powers movies... Moley, moley moley... ;-)
So, your muff is thick sided, or sheet tin enclosed?
I just last summer sold my '70 EH something Small Stone, nice one, but didn't really need to keep it. I still have a couple other Phases, and even though I went through quite a "phase" of buying different Phase Shifters, I've never like the effect that much, so I have almost no use for the pedal except as a decoration... Still have a couple, an ancient Rolly Phase Sonix that came from the UK (eBay) way back when, seller claimed that the pedal had belonged to David Gilmour at one time (no extra price asked), and an Orange Ross with box, only vintage pedal I have with a box, so that makes it almost worth keeping.
Weird, in my 20's I preferred the Small Stone over any other, but when I tried last year, it didn't really do it for me.
Kinda reminds me of that "mole" scene in the Austin Powers movies... Moley, moley moley... ;-)
So, your muff is thick sided, or sheet tin enclosed?
I just last summer sold my '70 EH something Small Stone, nice one, but didn't really need to keep it. I still have a couple other Phases, and even though I went through quite a "phase" of buying different Phase Shifters, I've never like the effect that much, so I have almost no use for the pedal except as a decoration... Still have a couple, an ancient Rolly Phase Sonix that came from the UK (eBay) way back when, seller claimed that the pedal had belonged to David Gilmour at one time (no extra price asked), and an Orange Ross with box, only vintage pedal I have with a box, so that makes it almost worth keeping.
Weird, in my 20's I preferred the Small Stone over any other, but when I tried last year, it didn't really do it for me.
Quantum Strummer
Senior Member
Thick or thin enclosure…I don't know enough about Russian-era BMPs to say. I can say it's more robust than my Foxey Lady (a Guild-branded v1 BMP).
Phase is my favorite guitar effect, especially when you include Univibe type gizmos in the broader Phaser family. When I use it I often have two going at once, one with a slow sweep and the other running faster. I can do this with more subtle two-stage versions like MXR's Phase 45 (slow) and DOD's current 201 (faster) without cluttering up my overall sound. Small Stones are IMO too intense for this unless set very slow.
To steer all this back around to acoustic stuff, I like to play my acoustics through various amps via a Baggs M1a pickup. Sometimes, when playing at home, I'll use two amps & will put the Small Stone or a Moog 6/12-stage inline before one of 'em to get a broader sonic spread. It's a cool sound!
-Dave-
Phase is my favorite guitar effect, especially when you include Univibe type gizmos in the broader Phaser family. When I use it I often have two going at once, one with a slow sweep and the other running faster. I can do this with more subtle two-stage versions like MXR's Phase 45 (slow) and DOD's current 201 (faster) without cluttering up my overall sound. Small Stones are IMO too intense for this unless set very slow.
To steer all this back around to acoustic stuff, I like to play my acoustics through various amps via a Baggs M1a pickup. Sometimes, when playing at home, I'll use two amps & will put the Small Stone or a Moog 6/12-stage inline before one of 'em to get a broader sonic spread. It's a cool sound!
-Dave-
According to Fender's dating chart, the serials from the 300,000s to 500,000 are from '73. Hopefully that's a little more accurate that Guild's consistently inconsistent dating chart, and it's what I used to date mine:
And yes, J-Necks fit quite nicely in the pocket of a P-Bass body! I bought mine from CEG Hardtails for an insanely cheap price, and couldn't be more pleased.
adorshki
Reverential Member
Oh it probably is "#88" in serial number sequence but guitars didn't always get their serial numbers assigned in strict build sequence, or even in the year in which they were built.
Unfinished instruments could have sat around a for a while before getting lacquered and getting the s/n stamp, and may have been pulled from storage out-of-build-sequence.
I think that was more common with electrics though:
Build a few bodies, store unlacquered, and then apply color and/or other options as orders came in.
It's resulted in curious situations where "newer" s/n's appear on guitars built quite a bit earlier than the s/n would imply.
Guildedagain
Enlightened Member
Yes, according to the pitifully vague Fender chart, you get your choice of;
SERIAL NUMBERS PRODUCTION DATES
L50,000s up to L90,000s 1965
100,000s 1965
100,000s to 200,000s 1966 to 1967
200,000s 1968
200,000s to 300,000s 1969 to 1970
300,000s 1971 to 1972
300,000s to 500,000s 1973
400,000s to 500,000s 1974 to 1975
500,000s to 700,000s 1976
Looks they're not totally concerned with accuracy (understatement...), to the nearest hundred thousand seems to be all you need to know... ;-) The other day when I looked at mine, I had ended up on this page *, a little bit better info, which according to that chart, yours is still a '73. and mine is a '71, pot dates would have to corroborate approximate build date.
* https://reverb.com/news/how-to-date-a-fender
" F Series - CBS Era 1965 - 1976
After the CBS purchase of Fender in 1965, the factory switched to a new serial sequence with numbers that continued the same general format used prior to the takeover. These are generally referred to as F series due the large Fender branded F on the neckplates of the era. This period also saw a switch from the original four-bolt neckplate of the '60s to a three-bolt neckplate in just one example of cost-saving costs introduced under CBS. "
100000 to 110000 late 1965
110000 to 200000 1966
200000 to 210000 1967
210000 to 250000 1968
250000 to 280000 1969
280000 to 300000 1970
300000 to 340000 1971
340000 to 370000 1972
370000 to 520000 1973
500000 to 580000 1974
580000 to 690000 1975
690000 to 750000 1976
SERIAL NUMBERS PRODUCTION DATES
L50,000s up to L90,000s 1965
100,000s 1965
100,000s to 200,000s 1966 to 1967
200,000s 1968
200,000s to 300,000s 1969 to 1970
300,000s 1971 to 1972
300,000s to 500,000s 1973
400,000s to 500,000s 1974 to 1975
500,000s to 700,000s 1976
Looks they're not totally concerned with accuracy (understatement...), to the nearest hundred thousand seems to be all you need to know... ;-) The other day when I looked at mine, I had ended up on this page *, a little bit better info, which according to that chart, yours is still a '73. and mine is a '71, pot dates would have to corroborate approximate build date.
* https://reverb.com/news/how-to-date-a-fender
" F Series - CBS Era 1965 - 1976
After the CBS purchase of Fender in 1965, the factory switched to a new serial sequence with numbers that continued the same general format used prior to the takeover. These are generally referred to as F series due the large Fender branded F on the neckplates of the era. This period also saw a switch from the original four-bolt neckplate of the '60s to a three-bolt neckplate in just one example of cost-saving costs introduced under CBS. "
100000 to 110000 late 1965
110000 to 200000 1966
200000 to 210000 1967
210000 to 250000 1968
250000 to 280000 1969
280000 to 300000 1970
300000 to 340000 1971
340000 to 370000 1972
370000 to 520000 1973
500000 to 580000 1974
580000 to 690000 1975
690000 to 750000 1976
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hansmoust
Enlightened Member
No, you got it all upside down! Maybe somebody could make a 'sticky' of this!
Guild guitars were made in batches of 6, 12 or 24 etc. From a manufacturing standpoint it was easier to make them in batches because of the change of tooling necessary to produce the different models. When the superstructures were completed they were serial numbered, which took place in the 'finishing' dept. After that the finish was applied and the guitars were hung to dry. After sufficient drying they would be buffed and placed in racks, where they would stay till an order came in. Obviously, if they started production they already had orders, but not always for the complete batch. Only the guitars they had orders for (plus the guitars that could be put in inventory because they were ordered on a regular basis) would be taken to 'final assembly', where the superstructure would get all the necessary parts to become a musical instrument and where it would be set up. Now the order in which they were taken from the racks was random, so it was possible for a higher serial number to come through 'final assembly' before a lower number. A lower serial number could stay on the racks for a very long time while a later serial number would already be hanging on a dealer's wall. I have several instruments in my collection that have serial numbers of which I know they were applied in a specific year; I also know that some of the hardware on these instruments was introduced years later, which shows that these instruments stayed on the racks for a very long time before they came through 'final assembly'. This usually happened with instruments that were not very popular during a specific period or with instruments that were already discontinued.
So the serial number on a guitar doesn't automatically tell you when a guitar was completed and in some cases this explains some of the quirky stuff you might come across.
Sincerely,
Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl
adorshki
Reverential Member
Thank you.
A sticky would be nice, but I think from now on I'll just refrain from saying what I thought I knew.
Guildedagain
Enlightened Member
It's a sticky subject... ;-)
Guildedagain
Enlightened Member
It's a sticky subject... ;-)
I'm still "waitin on the Guild" (think "puttin on the Ritz")...
An extra day is all, not gonna kill me... but the reason is strange. For those who can stand to read a lot, not everyone, or even me sometimes, I had mentioned the ominous thunder and lighting phone cal to the seller, well... a little more to the story, but it's what makes it interesting, in a sleuthian sort of wayall the little weird details that make up a transaction, and what really is going on over there, with that instrument, with that other person, the seller.
So, as also mentioned previously, I never really wanted to buy this Guild all that bad, but the price was stupid at the opening bid, that's how you get a guy like me, show me a good price and man is it hard to resist, I'm sure a lot of you fellow guitar nuts can concur... too good a deal to pass up.
Well it turns out, he didn't really want to sell it for that either, and (this is where the story starts) "when his wife went to ship it, it turned out to be $150" (good old UPS?), or that's what he said... and the shipping in the listing was $68, a little odd, and a little high, but whatever (back on this one in a minute).
So, the next day after I buy goes by and I don't get a shipping notification.
So, the next day after that... I email him and say "Do you have tracking info on the guild"
And he writes back (two emails), which I don't read til that evening, heavy yardwork day...
And the first email says to "call him", which is weird... so I did.
But the second email said, "don't bother", it's handled.
But, I'm already on the phone with him, down somewhere around Jacksonville FLA (God, I hope guitars from Florida aren't a wreck because of the humidity!!!).
So, we're talking about the guitar, I'm being honest saying "I was very surprised I got a seemingly pretty dang nice Guild 12 String for $500, instead of his $650 BIN price, and also that I was having buyers remorse on account of another guitar (the F112 previously mentioned in the original post), and he's got seller's remorse (it was more like therapy session than a phone call, and my wife is listening to this stuff shaking her head saying things like "What, you're telling him you woulda rather bought somebody else's guitar?" ;-), because he'd originally hoped to get $700 for it, not $500.
And he was a player, not just someone flipping the guitar, or maybe some of both. A "worship leader player at church".
And then there's the shipping, and [supposedly], "his wife (must have consulted him?), was told to "abort mission on shipping it out", and he told me "he was at that point going to try to make a smaller box (yeah, we all wish we could... ;-), which he did not do, but the purpose of the requested phone call was to ask for permission to "spend a couple days" making a smaller box, something about "working ten hour days"...
So I called him that evening, it was already 9pm in FLA, and he says "but nevermind, when I got your email, I figured "oh wth, jut ship the damn thing" and... he "sent his wife back out to do the deed", and it was shipped.
I hope this isn't boring absolutely everyone to tears...
The reason I called the next morning, is that even though a label had been generated, according to UPS, the guitar was not in their possession. I actually called UPS, got a really cute sounding gal on the phone, a voice like honey... and she says "they don't have it yet". Sadly, I have to get off the phone with her to call the seller back, enter then phone call with dark clouds, lighting and HUGE booming thunder.
So, I call him back, "hello again... ;-), just calling to say UPS doesn't seem to have the guitar", and he says "oh yes... Well... my wife... we got that straightened out... she had told me she had dropped it off" (finally, as this would have been the second attempt), "but... it turned out she didn't" (and he didn't know, like this huge honking box sat in the car all night, he didn't know, or drive the car, or whatever...), "but, it's all straightened out now, and it's on the way", and in fact, it started tracking.
This is where it starts to get sleuthian...
Up to that point, even tho I'd had a bid on it "to secure it", I'd never researched it enough (busy with about 20 other things, or more...), so I'd never even run the model # past eBay to look at completeds... and now that I owned it I looked, and what I saw was interesting, and again, oddly quirky in a few different ways.
There weren't too many sold, mostly his, not sold ;-) But... the 1st couple times he listed it, the shipping was $168... (which is insane, of course), but... hmmmm, it was as if he'd had a "premonition" that the shipping was going to be in the neighborhood, or he (or his wife...) had already visited the UPS store and knew it was that high, in fact I'm starting to wonder if that was just a "walk in and have let them pack/ship for you?
But wait, there's still more.
He had listed it four times before some chump stepped forward and bought it, that would be me (but hopefully not and I am so looking forward to it finally arriving, tomorrow ;-), the first two listings the shipping was $168, and the two subsequent listings the shipping had been "neutered" down to a more palatable $68, and I bit. But I'd never seen the guitar before, which is kind of odd, because I'd been browsing eBay for 12 strings, and I always look for CHEAP!!!
It's crazy but there is still a good deal on there, few and far between. This morning I got another one (for a total of THREE insane deals, all 12 String, and one is a Double neck), crazy stupid too good a deal on something I wanted but don't need but wanted anyway, and just had to do it and get it out of my system!
It was a doubleneck, $640 shipped, not getting diverted from this discourse ;-) but let's just say it's very not run of the mill, it's vintage, looks like it could be a fantastic project, been hankering for a double neck for a while, they're either $300 brand new China things that somehow pass for musical instruments long enough for money to change hands... or $3000 to $6000 on up, very dear indeed for a cool double neck these days... and you don't really need it that bad. Neither does your back! Most of us on this forum, I'm venturing to guess, are aging baby boomers with "random body pains"...
Back to the Guild 12 String, so he's listed it four times before I bought it (two that didn't count as far as Im concerned), I never saw it in any of my searches, no biggie but... Had I searched it on eBay, saw his wasn't selling time after time (like that bad 80's song ;-), I might have been very tempted to walk, if not run, in the other direction. A bit of human psychology there, no want wants what no one else wants... but everybody wants what everybody else wants, hence bidding wars, or in this case, the opposite of a bidding war, the cold shoulder more like.
Poor unwanted Guild, maybe that's why I wanted it. How many of us have not reached out at an orphan and brought some totally mongrelized guitar home, just because it needed you! This comes from our inner desire (as men!)(I'm going to hell for this ;-) to "fix things", and "make them better", thereby making the world a little better place... ;-)
Anyway, this all strikes me as a little odd, seriously shopping for 12 strings for a while now... because floating in that sea of mediocrity of new import stuff (for the guys who don't have the $1500-6000), there are a few gems well under $1000, some well under $500, and were talking not run of the mill, we're talking vintage. So vintage 12 Strings, particularly the electrics, can be spectacularly expensive, and in the case of double necks, insane, but if they are just odd enough to fall off of the radar of what the Sheeple (baaaaa) have taken a liking to, you can actually snag something really nice at a price that makes you wonder if you are in fact buying crap?
You know that old "sweetness of low price and bitterness of poor quality" adage... But, I know for a fact that you can get amazing deals on things, it still happens.
Although in the case of the D4 (hey guys, it sounds like a CAT!!!) I like that!!! I got me a D4 outback! (Yeah, I wish...), is it vintage? Hans (the verdict) says 1992, 1992 it is. And to me, frankly, that's vintage, because the 90's were a spectacular time in guitar making. a couple of my grail guitars are from the early 90's, 1992 SG Standard and 1993 "60 RI LP Classic (the first three years of that guitar deserve/and have a special place in Les Paul history), what they are now calling "the Goodwood Years" at Gibson, and my '52 RI Tele, 1992 also, probably the most righteous '52 RI I've ever handled, a dream Tele, if the dang thing didn't an extra pound or two, like the rest of us... My "62 RI Strat is from the same era, 1987, and it's a keeper Strat like no other I've ever had. The 90's, the early 1990's... really shine for American guitars.
Having the early 1960 RI LP, that Strat, and that Tele completely satisfies my need to have a bona fine vintage version of these hallowed instruments, but with instruments that cost $1500, like the LP when I bought it (I think pics of it are in the original two posts), instead of going on a million $$$ for the Les Paul, $20k for the Strat and just as much for the Tele.
So, I'll have to just accept the D4 as vintage, and hope that it is all it should be.
I forgot to mention maybe... the pickguard is lifting all the way around, common I'm sure and I've already looked into getting it glued down or maybe even doing it myself, it was fully disclosed with too many pictures of... the pickguard lifting, and that might have been enough to turn off buyers. There was no mention of the tone in the ad, any sort of glowing report, pretty dry ad.
Good lord! Crazy winds today here in the PNW, and getting darker by the minute, just talking about the Guild is bringing on a storm, again.
I'm still "waitin on the Guild" (think "puttin on the Ritz")...
An extra day is all, not gonna kill me... but the reason is strange. For those who can stand to read a lot, not everyone, or even me sometimes, I had mentioned the ominous thunder and lighting phone cal to the seller, well... a little more to the story, but it's what makes it interesting, in a sleuthian sort of wayall the little weird details that make up a transaction, and what really is going on over there, with that instrument, with that other person, the seller.
So, as also mentioned previously, I never really wanted to buy this Guild all that bad, but the price was stupid at the opening bid, that's how you get a guy like me, show me a good price and man is it hard to resist, I'm sure a lot of you fellow guitar nuts can concur... too good a deal to pass up.
Well it turns out, he didn't really want to sell it for that either, and (this is where the story starts) "when his wife went to ship it, it turned out to be $150" (good old UPS?), or that's what he said... and the shipping in the listing was $68, a little odd, and a little high, but whatever (back on this one in a minute).
So, the next day after I buy goes by and I don't get a shipping notification.
So, the next day after that... I email him and say "Do you have tracking info on the guild"
And he writes back (two emails), which I don't read til that evening, heavy yardwork day...
And the first email says to "call him", which is weird... so I did.
But the second email said, "don't bother", it's handled.
But, I'm already on the phone with him, down somewhere around Jacksonville FLA (God, I hope guitars from Florida aren't a wreck because of the humidity!!!).
So, we're talking about the guitar, I'm being honest saying "I was very surprised I got a seemingly pretty dang nice Guild 12 String for $500, instead of his $650 BIN price, and also that I was having buyers remorse on account of another guitar (the F112 previously mentioned in the original post), and he's got seller's remorse (it was more like therapy session than a phone call, and my wife is listening to this stuff shaking her head saying things like "What, you're telling him you woulda rather bought somebody else's guitar?" ;-), because he'd originally hoped to get $700 for it, not $500.
And he was a player, not just someone flipping the guitar, or maybe some of both. A "worship leader player at church".
And then there's the shipping, and [supposedly], "his wife (must have consulted him?), was told to "abort mission on shipping it out", and he told me "he was at that point going to try to make a smaller box (yeah, we all wish we could... ;-), which he did not do, but the purpose of the requested phone call was to ask for permission to "spend a couple days" making a smaller box, something about "working ten hour days"...
So I called him that evening, it was already 9pm in FLA, and he says "but nevermind, when I got your email, I figured "oh wth, jut ship the damn thing" and... he "sent his wife back out to do the deed", and it was shipped.
I hope this isn't boring absolutely everyone to tears...
The reason I called the next morning, is that even though a label had been generated, according to UPS, the guitar was not in their possession. I actually called UPS, got a really cute sounding gal on the phone, a voice like honey... and she says "they don't have it yet". Sadly, I have to get off the phone with her to call the seller back, enter then phone call with dark clouds, lighting and HUGE booming thunder.
So, I call him back, "hello again... ;-), just calling to say UPS doesn't seem to have the guitar", and he says "oh yes... Well... my wife... we got that straightened out... she had told me she had dropped it off" (finally, as this would have been the second attempt), "but... it turned out she didn't" (and he didn't know, like this huge honking box sat in the car all night, he didn't know, or drive the car, or whatever...), "but, it's all straightened out now, and it's on the way", and in fact, it started tracking.
This is where it starts to get sleuthian...
Up to that point, even tho I'd had a bid on it "to secure it", I'd never researched it enough (busy with about 20 other things, or more...), so I'd never even run the model # past eBay to look at completeds... and now that I owned it I looked, and what I saw was interesting, and again, oddly quirky in a few different ways.
There weren't too many sold, mostly his, not sold ;-) But... the 1st couple times he listed it, the shipping was $168... (which is insane, of course), but... hmmmm, it was as if he'd had a "premonition" that the shipping was going to be in the neighborhood, or he (or his wife...) had already visited the UPS store and knew it was that high, in fact I'm starting to wonder if that was just a "walk in and have let them pack/ship for you?
But wait, there's still more.
He had listed it four times before some chump stepped forward and bought it, that would be me (but hopefully not and I am so looking forward to it finally arriving, tomorrow ;-), the first two listings the shipping was $168, and the two subsequent listings the shipping had been "neutered" down to a more palatable $68, and I bit. But I'd never seen the guitar before, which is kind of odd, because I'd been browsing eBay for 12 strings, and I always look for CHEAP!!!
It's crazy but there is still a good deal on there, few and far between. This morning I got another one (for a total of THREE insane deals, all 12 String, and one is a Double neck), crazy stupid too good a deal on something I wanted but don't need but wanted anyway, and just had to do it and get it out of my system!
It was a doubleneck, $640 shipped, not getting diverted from this discourse ;-) but let's just say it's very not run of the mill, it's vintage, looks like it could be a fantastic project, been hankering for a double neck for a while, they're either $300 brand new China things that somehow pass for musical instruments long enough for money to change hands... or $3000 to $6000 on up, very dear indeed for a cool double neck these days... and you don't really need it that bad. Neither does your back! Most of us on this forum, I'm venturing to guess, are aging baby boomers with "random body pains"...
Back to the Guild 12 String, so he's listed it four times before I bought it (two that didn't count as far as Im concerned), I never saw it in any of my searches, no biggie but... Had I searched it on eBay, saw his wasn't selling time after time (like that bad 80's song ;-), I might have been very tempted to walk, if not run, in the other direction. A bit of human psychology there, no want wants what no one else wants... but everybody wants what everybody else wants, hence bidding wars, or in this case, the opposite of a bidding war, the cold shoulder more like.
Poor unwanted Guild, maybe that's why I wanted it. How many of us have not reached out at an orphan and brought some totally mongrelized guitar home, just because it needed you! This comes from our inner desire (as men!)(I'm going to hell for this ;-) to "fix things", and "make them better", thereby making the world a little better place... ;-)
Anyway, this all strikes me as a little odd, seriously shopping for 12 strings for a while now... because floating in that sea of mediocrity of new import stuff (for the guys who don't have the $1500-6000), there are a few gems well under $1000, some well under $500, and were talking not run of the mill, we're talking vintage. So vintage 12 Strings, particularly the electrics, can be spectacularly expensive, and in the case of double necks, insane, but if they are just odd enough to fall off of the radar of what the Sheeple (baaaaa) have taken a liking to, you can actually snag something really nice at a price that makes you wonder if you are in fact buying crap?
You know that old "sweetness of low price and bitterness of poor quality" adage... But, I know for a fact that you can get amazing deals on things, it still happens.
Although in the case of the D4 (hey guys, it sounds like a CAT!!!) I like that!!! I got me a D4 outback! (Yeah, I wish...), is it vintage? Hans (the verdict) says 1992, 1992 it is. And to me, frankly, that's vintage, because the 90's were a spectacular time in guitar making. a couple of my grail guitars are from the early 90's, 1992 SG Standard and 1993 "60 RI LP Classic (the first three years of that guitar deserve/and have a special place in Les Paul history), what they are now calling "the Goodwood Years" at Gibson, and my '52 RI Tele, 1992 also, probably the most righteous '52 RI I've ever handled, a dream Tele, if the dang thing didn't an extra pound or two, like the rest of us... My "62 RI Strat is from the same era, 1987, and it's a keeper Strat like no other I've ever had. The 90's, the early 1990's... really shine for American guitars.
Having the early 1960 RI LP, that Strat, and that Tele completely satisfies my need to have a bona fine vintage version of these hallowed instruments, but with instruments that cost $1500, like the LP when I bought it (I think pics of it are in the original two posts), instead of going on a million $$$ for the Les Paul, $20k for the Strat and just as much for the Tele.
So, I'll have to just accept the D4 as vintage, and hope that it is all it should be.
I forgot to mention maybe... the pickguard is lifting all the way around, common I'm sure and I've already looked into getting it glued down or maybe even doing it myself, it was fully disclosed with too many pictures of... the pickguard lifting, and that might have been enough to turn off buyers. There was no mention of the tone in the ad, any sort of glowing report, pretty dry ad.
Good lord! Crazy winds today here in the PNW, and getting darker by the minute, just talking about the Guild is bringing on a storm, again.
adorshki
Reverential Member
I'm laughin', and I believe that original $168.00 shipping price because other members have reported similar figures for exactly what you theorized: walk into a "UPS Store" and let 'em pack and insure it for you.
They're independent franchisees and while you're pretty well guaranteed that a claim will be honored if worst comes to worst, you're definitely paying full retail top dollar for all that service, packaging, and "peace of mind".
Oversize package also called "dimensional weight" also is a LARGE part of that rate.
It wouldn't surprise me if the shipping cost was actually edited by mistake when being re-listed but I don't know how that process actually works.
Pickguard lifting? Actually not that common a guitar that young , at least not often reported here. Makes me wonder if there was a crack in the finish (the 'guards were finished over) that allowed polish to seep in under it. The silicones in polishes weaken glue bonds and also make repairs problematic.
Maybe aggravated by humidity swelling top too.
Keep fingers crossed that's not the problem if you want to do cosmetic repair.
And rest assured at least one other person around here likes to read long posts.... :biggrin-new:
Guildedagain
Enlightened Member
Well thank you ;-)
The Guild came today, it was quite a day, even without the Guild. Not sure about any cracks (none visible anywhere in fact), but the pickguard is lifting neatly all the way around (from the side, it looks like a little dish), the adhesive is letting go, you can push it back down very easily. I've got to find that Erlewine page on fixing it... Took it over to my luthier neighbors place that's got my Washburn, and he wasn't home. So it either stays like that, strung or unstrung (Unstrung Heroes, haha... not funny ;-(, or I fix it myself.
All the time I'm carrying the guitar over there, it's screaming, "Noooo, don't take me to "the butcher"!!!
Actually, that was me, thinking, "noooooooo, not this one too", as I bought this Guild because another guitar is on the operating table (1987 Washburn Japan 12 String, story in my original posts), and might be for a while.
Anyway, UPS shows up rather early and I'm trudging back home with a 20lb box on my shoulder, and it was stupidly long, 50" box, it could have been trimmed way down to cost less. $20 worth of packing peanuts inside, the guitar was slightly padded inside the case, but basically tuned up to pitch... but sort of horribly out of tune, of course... because what 12 string guitars sound like, right? Pick one up at the music store or pawn shop, and that's what you get...
And the strings, oh my... maybe the originals?
So, I tuned it up a little, and played it, and... it was pretty amazing actually. I had a moment, a couple pretty good moments where it sounded more or less fantastic belting out some chords, Pinball Wizard... and picking it, and I realized, wow... look at this thing, it doesn't have any picking scratches on the pickguard, like as in say what? No picking scratches or wear around the soundhole, none! In fact, besides a couple unfortunate boo boos in the top, and other assorted getting banged into the furniture imperfections, it has no discernible playing wear at all.
This guitar, this 1992 Guild D4-12NT is in virtually unplayed condition!!!
In the case, an unusual amount of case candy, some oddball soundhole magnetic p'up (Soho, actually made in England?), some blasted digital tuner I don't need, but looks like a really good one... I'm kind of a tuning fork guy, so I don't need it... a new pack of SIT strings (but they look twenty years old), 10's, which is kinda neat, because that is the exact set I had ordered on eBay in anticipation of the Guild getting here ;-) Next up, a really cool complete set of D'angelico Silk & Steel strings, looking neatly vintage, and a business card from the store, quite possibly, where it sold new!
The name of the place is NOT JUST GUITARS in Miami FL, and the card looks really old, just phone numbers, no email.
On the back of the card is penciled in, maybe by the guy who was writing down two choices, so maybe it was a Guild Store? The choices were D4-12NY (?), and D4-12E NT.
Also, some pics, including a couple of the giant Fender triangular Mediums, which actually seem to work quite well, nice discovery there.
And a nice "vintage string winder" ;-)
That's when you know you're completely gone when you appreciate vintage string winders, and case candy in general...
Anyway, back to the guitar, it seems ok. The action is a little high, but totally playable, in fact it was very nicely playable. It's a little plain... that satin finish, it's not my cup odf tea... and it needs cleaned, and the strings are atrocious, so you can see where this is headed, to the workbench. So, I start taking strings off, the high E strings are .10, and it's bugging me more and more that I see decent grain under all that incredibly boring satin finish. By this time, I've got some polishes out, and a try some in a couple areas, which show promise. I polish down headstock between the tuners, and oh lordy, there is some really beautiful Mahogany grain grain in there, just waiting to be let out..., the rest of the finish is so opaque, it's a night and day difference and I can't look at a guitar like that for long without doing something about it...
So at that point, I stripped the tuners, and removed the extra strap button, which looks like it could be from a vintage Strat (another nice touch), and was drilled just below the heel of the neck in the body, Something a little different than what I'm used to seeing.
Out came the Meguiars Fine Cut Cleaner, and Cleaner Wax as a second step, and some age old Zymol leftover from my BMW craze, and finally some Smith Guitar Polish that must be from the 80's...
Anyway, I set myself up in a couple really good positions on the picnic table over a heavy blanket, trying no to slop polishes on it, and I buffed, and I buffed, I became a human orbital (lots of previous elbow grease experience on pet cars and bikes, etc), that guitar was so buffed, I was buffed! I have pics, but those will have to come later. It was sunny, and reasonably warm, beautiful day to be doing this outside, and the afternoon sun beating down on the guitar, pretty soon these amazing colors started to emanate from the guitar, beautiful chocolate browns and exquisite grain started showing through in the back, the sides the sides just radiating these golden honey hues... Who knew Mahogany could be so beautiful? And the top is not so bad either, with nice figure all over the place, in fact looks like it may be bookmatched, it's got some downward chevron pattern on the upper bouts that looks like it could be bookmatched, also a lot of odd, but matching patterns, all fairly 3D, everything moves as you move around.
The neck has some figure, reminiscent of some SG/LP necks I've had.
I reassembled everything, it killed me not to string it, but... really should address the pickguard thing before the strings go back on.
Reading this article here, seems like fairly solid info. Additional input is welcome on this topic.
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Guitar/Pickguards/ReglueGuard/reglueguard.html
I vacuumed out the case and put the guitar away for the night.
I'd have to say I really bonded with that guitar, but so far, purely from restoration (or alteration?) efforts, but it was fun, I saw it transform right before my eyes, it was amazing.
What is the deal with satin finish on guitars anyway, is there a point? Guitars are supposed to be glossy, shiny things...
Couple more notes;
Fingerboard is amazingly dark, very pleasantly surprised there.
Guild's "hand rubbed" satin finish just got a whole lotta more hand rubbed ;-)
Guild got a Whole Lotta Love!!!
The Guild came today, it was quite a day, even without the Guild. Not sure about any cracks (none visible anywhere in fact), but the pickguard is lifting neatly all the way around (from the side, it looks like a little dish), the adhesive is letting go, you can push it back down very easily. I've got to find that Erlewine page on fixing it... Took it over to my luthier neighbors place that's got my Washburn, and he wasn't home. So it either stays like that, strung or unstrung (Unstrung Heroes, haha... not funny ;-(, or I fix it myself.
All the time I'm carrying the guitar over there, it's screaming, "Noooo, don't take me to "the butcher"!!!
Actually, that was me, thinking, "noooooooo, not this one too", as I bought this Guild because another guitar is on the operating table (1987 Washburn Japan 12 String, story in my original posts), and might be for a while.
Anyway, UPS shows up rather early and I'm trudging back home with a 20lb box on my shoulder, and it was stupidly long, 50" box, it could have been trimmed way down to cost less. $20 worth of packing peanuts inside, the guitar was slightly padded inside the case, but basically tuned up to pitch... but sort of horribly out of tune, of course... because what 12 string guitars sound like, right? Pick one up at the music store or pawn shop, and that's what you get...
And the strings, oh my... maybe the originals?
So, I tuned it up a little, and played it, and... it was pretty amazing actually. I had a moment, a couple pretty good moments where it sounded more or less fantastic belting out some chords, Pinball Wizard... and picking it, and I realized, wow... look at this thing, it doesn't have any picking scratches on the pickguard, like as in say what? No picking scratches or wear around the soundhole, none! In fact, besides a couple unfortunate boo boos in the top, and other assorted getting banged into the furniture imperfections, it has no discernible playing wear at all.
This guitar, this 1992 Guild D4-12NT is in virtually unplayed condition!!!
In the case, an unusual amount of case candy, some oddball soundhole magnetic p'up (Soho, actually made in England?), some blasted digital tuner I don't need, but looks like a really good one... I'm kind of a tuning fork guy, so I don't need it... a new pack of SIT strings (but they look twenty years old), 10's, which is kinda neat, because that is the exact set I had ordered on eBay in anticipation of the Guild getting here ;-) Next up, a really cool complete set of D'angelico Silk & Steel strings, looking neatly vintage, and a business card from the store, quite possibly, where it sold new!
The name of the place is NOT JUST GUITARS in Miami FL, and the card looks really old, just phone numbers, no email.
On the back of the card is penciled in, maybe by the guy who was writing down two choices, so maybe it was a Guild Store? The choices were D4-12NY (?), and D4-12E NT.
Also, some pics, including a couple of the giant Fender triangular Mediums, which actually seem to work quite well, nice discovery there.
And a nice "vintage string winder" ;-)
That's when you know you're completely gone when you appreciate vintage string winders, and case candy in general...
Anyway, back to the guitar, it seems ok. The action is a little high, but totally playable, in fact it was very nicely playable. It's a little plain... that satin finish, it's not my cup odf tea... and it needs cleaned, and the strings are atrocious, so you can see where this is headed, to the workbench. So, I start taking strings off, the high E strings are .10, and it's bugging me more and more that I see decent grain under all that incredibly boring satin finish. By this time, I've got some polishes out, and a try some in a couple areas, which show promise. I polish down headstock between the tuners, and oh lordy, there is some really beautiful Mahogany grain grain in there, just waiting to be let out..., the rest of the finish is so opaque, it's a night and day difference and I can't look at a guitar like that for long without doing something about it...
So at that point, I stripped the tuners, and removed the extra strap button, which looks like it could be from a vintage Strat (another nice touch), and was drilled just below the heel of the neck in the body, Something a little different than what I'm used to seeing.
Out came the Meguiars Fine Cut Cleaner, and Cleaner Wax as a second step, and some age old Zymol leftover from my BMW craze, and finally some Smith Guitar Polish that must be from the 80's...
Anyway, I set myself up in a couple really good positions on the picnic table over a heavy blanket, trying no to slop polishes on it, and I buffed, and I buffed, I became a human orbital (lots of previous elbow grease experience on pet cars and bikes, etc), that guitar was so buffed, I was buffed! I have pics, but those will have to come later. It was sunny, and reasonably warm, beautiful day to be doing this outside, and the afternoon sun beating down on the guitar, pretty soon these amazing colors started to emanate from the guitar, beautiful chocolate browns and exquisite grain started showing through in the back, the sides the sides just radiating these golden honey hues... Who knew Mahogany could be so beautiful? And the top is not so bad either, with nice figure all over the place, in fact looks like it may be bookmatched, it's got some downward chevron pattern on the upper bouts that looks like it could be bookmatched, also a lot of odd, but matching patterns, all fairly 3D, everything moves as you move around.
The neck has some figure, reminiscent of some SG/LP necks I've had.
I reassembled everything, it killed me not to string it, but... really should address the pickguard thing before the strings go back on.
Reading this article here, seems like fairly solid info. Additional input is welcome on this topic.
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Guitar/Pickguards/ReglueGuard/reglueguard.html
I vacuumed out the case and put the guitar away for the night.
I'd have to say I really bonded with that guitar, but so far, purely from restoration (or alteration?) efforts, but it was fun, I saw it transform right before my eyes, it was amazing.
What is the deal with satin finish on guitars anyway, is there a point? Guitars are supposed to be glossy, shiny things...
Couple more notes;
Fingerboard is amazingly dark, very pleasantly surprised there.
Guild's "hand rubbed" satin finish just got a whole lotta more hand rubbed ;-)
Guild got a Whole Lotta Love!!!
Last edited:
geoguy
Senior Member
Congrats . . . those guitars were intended to have a basic price point, & it probably saved the manufacturer some labor time/cost to have a satin finish, versus buffing it to a high gloss finish.