New here, got the Guild bug again... in two parts ;-)

[Guildedagain]

Thx guys and I'll just get this out of the way first, I don't have any confidence that Guild had a guard like this at this time...

I might see if I can talk to someone in tech support that can check around.

I'm lamenting the passing of the pickguard that was there, but it was "not right"... not right when I started, and it was definitely not right when it left this world... So, ultimately, I'm glad to be rid of it (it's just a hard lesson to learn), because what I will never have to lament is having that guard on the guitar, that problem guard.... It did me a favor, no regrets on gluing an excuse (and a redo) on the guitar. I'll find some nice material and make my own, it will be fun and easy compared to what I went thru...


Clamping shenanigans, this is round two...

Amazing scraping tool, I will never go back to a razor blade as long as I have this, and you need a really good pair of magnifying glasses to see what you are doing. I did not put a single scratch in the guitar doing this job, thx to this tool!

Reluctantly working over the guard area, which has had some horrible gauging do to it... I need to talk to the seller about this, this is not cool!!!

"Wrist shot", for those of you into that... people who "like to watch" ;-)

Pickguard shenanigans, I wish someone had told me it was Nitrate... The whole time I worked with it yesterday there was this sickening sweet odor, strange stuff...

Guitar outside, you can see the aging of the top where the guard was clear, actually kinda cool.

So, before I ever started cleaning and trying to flatten the guard, I really went over the top (over the top, hahahaha) yesterday, and after the guard was raptured (a recall, I think...) I apprehensively (one disaster a day is enough) went over the top (again!) with an orbital (taking the gloves off now), and worked the pickguard area that had been previously mauled...

Fortunately, the finish is probably thicker than the finish on your car, so I was able to make it look a lot better, and DANG, I really didn't want to polish it under there in regards to installing a guard when I find one, which at this point it looks like I may have to make one, from scratch, can't be that hard... a "from scratch plate" ;-)

Note to self, do NOT get another one of these "low gloss" guitars to spruce up, learning curve... I don't like this weird gel finish, wish I'd gotten a guitar that was nitro lacquer. Pretty sure my '71 was nitro, a lot nicer feel and I don't like the way this stuff is taking on micro scratches from my sleeve, etc, but maybe the finish just needs to age a little from the buff job, skin up a little?

On the other hand, the top, that I went over the top on is simply magic, really a strange one. That weird sort of "hollow graphic" pattern that you see moving around, I finally got it! It's like a ghostly ribcage, a human ribcage. To boot, in a different light yet, today, I see all of this birdseye to the top, wow this is really getting crazy.

Oh, btw, I strung it up after the final top polish, late afternoon, and...

No relief at first, miserable on slide, figure it would pull up after a while, and it did, and it started sounding pretty magical, again, and then evne more magical, and more, it was pretty cool and I found myself inspired enough to work on my chops, realizing these are a big beast to play...

So... to boot it's not quite the right guitar for me, it's way to quiet for blues, with a slide anyway, but when you dig in and strum it, Holy ****, I bet the whole Canyon down here could hear it. It makes you work hard for that volume level, but it delivers, and to boot, it only really sings when you drive it like that.

But after a while you learn to appreciate its subtleties... A pic is a must, again, those triangular Fender Mediums that came with it doing an admirable job for getting 60's Jangle tones.

I thing it needs the sh*t played out if it to open it up, even when I picked it up this morning, it was underwhelming until a few minutes had passed by, and then started sounding good, and better, and better yet. You can play this one for a long time, only gets better as you go along.

Weird thing is the last three days I've been tinkering with it, it's basically been like obsessing about a piece piece of fine furniture, totally detached from it being a music instrument, just fine wood and finish.

Continued in next installment, too many pics for one post.

 

[Guildedagain]

Here is is just strung up, pretty mirror shine on the top, guard area is interesting, the top aged in the spots that were clear, so you have a negative image of the guard where it use to be, so this guard had been on forever...

Strange to see Birdseye in Spruce, all over the edges of the bouts, unusual and pleasing to the eye. You can see that mirror ribcage effect in the last pic, very interesting top! Could this be Cedar? I just recently saw a Reverb ad for a 1997 D4 with Cedar top, so they claimed.

Ohhh, in deference to the person who mentioned no pickguard... it's interesting what life throws at you sometimes, by I learned a ton on this thing, and by golly, that's not a bad look, not a bad look at all... and looking around the net seems to be a bit of a fad at one time or another?



I still wish I had something more vintage... Stop me before I Guildagain!

 

[adorshki]

Pickguard shenanigans, I wish someone had told me it was Nitrate...

Uh, somebody did:

The 'guards, being a form of nitrocellulose plastic, do out-gas and shrink over time,

But hey,in fairness, there was a lot of details bein' tossed around.

Note to self, do NOT get another one of these "low gloss" guitars to spruce up, learning curve... I don't like this weird gel finish, wish I'd gotten a guitar that was nitro lacquer.

It's nitrocellulose based, but gloss finish is sprayed on in layers and cured between layers.
That affects how it hardens up.
Actually I don't know if there even was more than a single layer with the HR.

Pretty sure my '71 was nitro, a lot nicer feel and I don't like the way this stuff is taking on micro scratches from my sleeve, etc, but maybe the finish just needs to age a little from the buff job, skin up a little?

Guild didn't use anything but NCL with a couple of exceptions in the '80's, and not "standard flattops" at that.
Yes it may be possible the finish needs to dry out a bit to harden up after "cutting" it, but there's also a question of whether the polishing agent contained something that broke down the NCL, making it soft.
Acetone is known NCL solvent, and very strong alcohol's been mentioned before.
Naphtha's safe.
Hopefully though the "cure" will be just to let it outgas enough to harden up. ("outgassing" is the evaporation of the solvents from the finish.)
NCL crystallizes as it ages, it never really stops drying out, but continues to get harder and more brittle. It's why many of us believe NCL improves tone with age: the brittleness = more top resonance.

On the other hand, the top, that I went over the top on is simply magic, really a strange one. That weird sort of "hollow graphic" pattern that you see moving around,

It's called "silking" and is a result of the of the grain fibers being cut along their length.
The exposed interiors of the fibers reflect light at different angles, same as if you cut a straw along its length. The curved interior surface reflects light in many directions.
Thus the holographic effect.

 

[adorshki]

Strange to see Birdseye in Spruce, all over the edges of the bouts, unusual and pleasing to the eye. You can see that mirror ribcage effect in the last pic, very interesting top! Could this be Cedar?

I highly doubt it. Although they did start to "experiment around" with 'em later on, in '92 I don't think they would have bothered "getting fancy" on a D4, also, normal practice was to label a non-standard instrument with a "Sp" or "Spec" to indicate there was something non-standard about the physical construction.
Guild did use cedar on one of their classical models, but right now I can't remember ever seeing it on one of their steel strings from Westerly.
RE the Reverb ad, I suspect it's in error, but we did see a few mahogany -topped D4's during that period, '97.
They're so rare they usually take members by surprise when they come up.
To be fair the first time I saw one I called the seller, he's a member here (Jay Pilzer, New Hope Traders, and very knowledgable about Guild in the Westerly years) to get verification, and he said "Guild was doing a lot of wild things then", or words to that effect.
So it could be cedar but it'd be the very first one I ever remember hearing of, and I'd still expect it to be labeled as a special.
The 'hog topped D4's were a throwback to a short-lived version of the D25 formula: all-'hog with an arched back, that was periodically revived. And remember, D25's and D4's are basically the same guitar.
So, lookin' pretty good so far, good luck with 'guard!
And no, nobody here is going to discourage you from looking for another if this one just don't quite scratch the itch like you hoped.
We just don't do that around here.
Around here we'd tell ya to start lookin' at an F412 (might be a JF65-12, I always forget now, but it's the same construction formula: maple archback jumbo 12) like Stevie Ray Vaughan was so happy with.
Look for his acoustic version of "Pride and Joy" on Youtube.

:biggrin-new:

 

[Guildedagain]

Thx, stuff to think about for sure ;-)

I doubt it's cedar and the other ad is probably in error. I have a cedar top classical (one of many over the years), and the color of the wood on the D4 is nothing like that, plus it has thew classic Spruce bearclaw, but the birdseye is kind an interesting twist. I sure love good guitar woods ;-)

Well hell, if it's Nitro, I like it ;-) Maybe I should be careful what I wear on my arm until the top gets a chance to harden up a little. Easy enough to polish anyway, and I like the usual micro swirls you see on guitars.

 

[davismanLV]

I think Guildedagain and adorshki are a match made in heaven. Y'all just keep on keeping on. You've been told about Hans. If you need pickguard help I'd ask him. Glue is funny. All old glue must be gone before new glue is gonna stick. Unless you use a kinda glue you shouldn't be using and even then.... no. There are new pickguards for this guitar and even if not you can get one made or make it yourself. Use the old one for a template and ..... keep going. Micro swirls? I have no idea..... good luck.

I'm happy you're spending time and energy on this old D4-12. If it sounds good, it's worth the effort. Sorry to post and interrupt the Al and Guildedagain show, but... I'm rude like that. LMAO!!

It looks good. Stay calm.

 

[geoguy]

davismanLV, if we had an upvote button I'd give you a +1.

 

[Guildedagain]

Thx for the Hans tip for a pickguard, I'll see if he can help. In the meantime, the guitar sounds pretty amazing actually, when I find the time to play it. Making up for the time I lost working on it right now, barely got 5 minutes playing time today ;-(