Price and the perception of quality

Br1ck

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Recently I have come in contact with two interesting instances related to price. I recently had my Weber Yellowstone mandolin in for some work. My luthier told me of a customer who collected two brands, Weber and Gilchrist. I thought that odd and was told the guy had the money to buy anything he wanted and liked those two. For those unaware, Gilchrists cost around $20,000 plus or minus three or four grand, and Webers top out new at around $6K, the low end of US builds. Of course we all like validation so I was pleased. Then I talked to a friend who bought a Custom shop 000 18. He is thinking of selling his Froggy worth twice what the Martin costs.

This relates to Guild only in that some have them along with more valuable guitars, and some find them collectable on a modest budget. I'm convinced a D 25 is the ultimate gig warhorse. Sturdy and dependable.
 

dreadnut

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"This relates to Guild only in that some have them along with more valuable guitars, and some find them collectable on a modest budget. I'm convinced a D 25 is the ultimate gig warhorse. Sturdy and dependable."

I'm in total agreement., almost 47 years now,
 

kitniyatran

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"This relates to Guild only in that some have them along with more valuable guitars, and some find them collectable on a modest budget. I'm convinced a D 25 is the ultimate gig warhorse. Sturdy and dependable."

I'm in total agreement., almost 47 years now,
Yes indeed
 

plaidseason

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I've said a lot, but guitars are funny in that they can really surprise. I've told this story, but I mostly stopped gigging with my F44 a few years and picked up a Simon & Patrick folk used for $180. It's like a poor man's LG. I kind of love it it. It plays as easily way more expensive guitars. Oddly, people often think it's an expensive boutique guitar. Anyway, a couple years back I decided I wanted to upgrade my gigging guitar to something like a Martin 000-17. 1500 ish was the top of my range. I never really found anything I liked better. At least not until I played a D28 and an HD28 both of which were way above the range and not the size of guitar I was looking for. One of these days I will pick up a 90s Guild F30 or a Gibson LG . . . but only if they actually sound better than my $180 S&P.

I've long been a fan of top of the heap factory guitars. I'd put my F44 up against some far more cherished instruments.

And I'm 100% with you on the D25. Similar to above, I missed owning a dreadnought and kept playing all solid guitars unable to really come around to mahogany or rosewood. Until, I started to wonder if the sound I was missing was my old, long gone DCE1. And it turns out, it was, and so I picked up another for $400. I would've preferred a D25 or even a D4G or D4 satin, but the $400 DCE1 is amazing. And yeah, I'd pick a D25 over a J45, or D18. I just like them.
 

Westerly Wood

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My 1971 D25Br would have cost $225 new. It was their bottom acoustic dread. I paid 500 for it in late 2012. I have put another 500 into it at least over the years. All in all, cost me let’s say $1200. I got a really good deal for how it sounds. All the higher end guitars I had I have moved on from.
 

fronobulax

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It's all subjective and often related to other factors.

Sometimes you pay more and get more. Sometimes you don't. Often there is a point of diminishing returns where you still get more but it's not really worth it.

The grail is when people pay less and get more - "value" and "bang for the buck".

Economic circumstances also play a factor. We have had people who were struggling to pay rent and could maybe afford a $350 instrument but not a $400 instrument. We have also had people who decided they wanted something and wrote a check for $5000, regardless of whether that was overpriced or not.

Then there is opportunity cost - is a $5000 guitar worth more or less than a safe and drivable used car at $5000?

To the OPs point we all like validation and Guilds, in general, are almost always good values.
 

Guildedagain

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Best money I ever spent.

I'd have to agree as I bought 2 D25's just to keep up and then shamelessly sold both for twice what I paid, because I could, but most importantly because the the staggering quality of the instruments, on a one by one case basis, some are incredible gems.

I spent a summer working at a car lot, most educational... And I had a boss who was somewhat of a philosopher who instilled in me never to talk price [ with a customer] but talk quality. When everything is reduced down to price, quality and longevity or even safety no longer matter and you head for Harbor Freight, no thanks, that's not my life.
 
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Guildedagain

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If I sold Guilds new, back then, and believed in the product, with any customer I would ascertain first of all that the quality is superior*, and at that point, the lower price just closes the deal on itself. As a seller of a guitar, you're merely a conduit, a good guitar sells itself.

*A belief in the product that you have as the seller and that you impart, it is "what you believe" much in the same way that other makers believe their product is the superior one.

The D25's, flat back red hog top, and brown spruce top, neither what I wanted cosmetically, I want/ed the plain top flat back version, in either spruce or hog, but has to be natural, and I like a flat back because it lays on it's back better, and lighter too.

'73 D25CH

P1470684.JPG


'78 D25M This one sounded fabulous from the 1st chord to the last when I packed it away.

P1480928.JPG
 
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Walter Broes

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There are two truths us mortals don't always want to hear :

-a truly great player will make you forget instantly what "quality" instrument they're playing.

-once you go beyond a certain point, it takes a certain level of player to truly appreciate what an exceptional instrument can do.
 
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Br1ck

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Guild sold many guitars to college students back in 71. That $225 for a D 25 became $275 or so for a D 35. A D 18 was around $350, and for that difference, you could eat for a month. But really, adjusted for inflation, guitars cost about the same. Ah, the good old days. What wasn't around those days was a boutique brand for two or three times the money.

But there were many Guilds floating around the college campuses.
 

Rayk

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I'd have to agree as I bought 2 D25's just to keep up and then shamelessly sold both for twice what I paid, because I could, but most importantly because the the staggering quality of the instruments, on a one by one case basis, some are incredible gems.

I spent a summer working at a car lot, most educational... And I had a boss who was somewhat of a philosopher who instilled in me never to talk price [ with a customer] but talk quality. When everything is reduced down to price, quality and longevity or even safety no longer matter and you head for Harbor Freight, no thanks, that's not my life.
Hey wait, I bought a guitar from harbor freight , no wait that was Walmart but what are you trying say about harbor freight huh !? That’s my hood ! 😂🤣
 

West R Lee

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Well as far as $5000 guitars (and up), here's my philosophy.

I had two Guild guitar sitting around that got zero play. One a DV73 that was so beautiful I was afraid to touch it. A great sounding guitar that never spoke deeply to me personally. I also had a JF30-12, which was an '89 and looked like new. But it was too much work and didn't fit my playing style. Those two guitars sat literally for years unplayed. At some point you ask yourself why?

So then I asked myself what I'd really like.......what would get some serious play time. Already owning a couple of Collings guitars, I knew well how incredible they are. Now that's not something that can be put into words really, it simply takes the personal experience of having played them. With that in mind, I set out to carefully evaluate and determine precisely what I wanted in an acoustic and that was really pretty easy to do after much study.

Now here again, keep in mind that the buying experience is totally different than say, Guild, to buying a Collings guitar. As with Guild, most people buy Collings guitars used, but in my case, after looking for quite a while, I was unable to find exactly what I had in mind. That left one option.....a custom order to Collings, and by the way, ALL Collings guitars are custom order. You may buy one from dealer stock, but that dealer as placed an order for that specific guitar.

So now on to the order itself. What do you get, and how does it work? You order through a dealer, and you order precisely what you want down to the detail. And within parameters, they'll build anything. So once your order is placed, the buyer is free to call Collings and discuss details and progress. It begins with one man, the same man for 29 years not only selecting and buying all woods, but hand selecting not only your top, but matching that particular top to say, a mahogany dread body. And that man knows better than just about anyone on earth, which sounds, what excitability mates with the various back and side woods. From there you are able to select bracing wood, style of bracing and have the ability to omit bracing, which I did indeed do. You select tuners, inlay and appointments, including finish, and you can even select neck profile. Collings not only offers a variety of finishes, but if you send them a picture of say a particular burst, they will try and duplicate it. Just an incredible guitar buying/building experience......and now, for the first time in my 65 years, this feels like "my guitar".

Bill Collings was a pretty straight shooter and friends with several other builder, including Chris Martin, Bob Taylor, Richard Hoover and others, and in an interview I watched with Bill before he died, he was very frank about what he was trying to accomplish, and one of the details he cited was that it took roughly 11 man hours to build a Martin guitar, but it took Collings around 60 man hours. Bill smiled and said that it wasn't a very good business model, was it? But that's why fine guitars cost what they cost. Worth every penny for sure.

Would it have been smarter to keep two guitars that got no play, or to sell them and buy one that I've been unable to put down and am absolutely addicted to? Not that I feel the need to justify my decision, I don't, not to anyone but myself. And I assure you that in my mind, that decision was more than justified. I see guys with collections of 50 guitar, and I ask myself why? But it's none of my business why they choose to own 50 guitars, they're grown and they own them because they can. :)

West
 
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adorshki

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I want/ed the plain top flat back version, in either spruce or hog, but has to be natural,
Flatback spruce top D25 never made, that would be the D35. Also I think 'hog top D25's were only finished in Brown or Cherry. (Barring possible special finish orders, but don't think "Natural" hog tops appeared until mid-80's on D15/17's)
 

West R Lee

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I actually think it's pretty cool that guys/ladies own 50-80 guitars. I couldn't care for them, nor do I have the room for them, and I'm a tad jealous, but I think it's pretty neat that it's their cup of tea. A guy wants to spend $14,000 on a Brazilian Santa Cruz, now I would be a bit envious, but more power to him......I'd just like to see the pictures.

But yes, as Frono said, sometimes you really do get what you pay for. Diminishing returns? Well that's in the eye/mind/touch/ear of the buyer. It's not for me to judge.

West
 
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beecee

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My 1971 D25Br would have cost $225 new. It was their bottom acoustic dread. I paid 500 for it in late 2012. I have put another 500 into it at least over the years. All in all, cost me let’s say $1200. I got a really good deal for how it sounds. All the higher end guitars I had I have moved on from.
Yeah but Wood....that's $700 in strings!! :LOL:
 
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