Seeking Wisdom On Choosing an Older Guild 12-String

[chazmo]

Thank you, Mr. adorshki ! I have read your message twice now and will again a few times to try to take it all in. Thank you for this brief encyclopedia of information. I take it that the 16" is somewhat limited to the F-212 ??? Also, I did not understand the relationship the 'JF' models had to others as well as I do after reading your description. I am very glad I didn't just leap on a guitar via the internet before joining here and learning from all you good folks. Thank you adorshki and the whole crew.

Hi Matthro,

I believe the F-312 body style was also a 16" lower bout. But, the F-312 is pretty rare and expensive. There is also the Orpheum 12-string, which was built in New Hartford. Not a lot of those either, but also similar.

There is/was also in recent years several 12-string models from offshore that were nice.

Finally, there are also a lot of 12-string dreadnought-style guitars that are terrific. Those might be easier to find in your search.

Best wishes, Matthro. In this hunt, patience is a virtue.

By the way, if you're planning to stick around, there are several books to watch for that can help you navigate the waters. In particular is the bible (Hans Moust's "The Guild Guitar Book"). Try to get a copy of that.

 

[Guildedagain]

AI chatbots are spying on us all... and they want us to see this.


And this

and this

and this

12 Principles of Playing a 12-STRING

Enjoy, please leave us YOUR tips below, and If you're here - you'll probably LOVE this other vid: 50 Famous Riffs & Intros On A 12-Stringhttps://youtu.be/vkk...

www.youtube.com

and this

My Youtube feed has really gone crazy, what a strange coincidence

 

[Matthro]

Thank you adorshki and Guildedagain for the follow-up. 'Question' by the Moody Blues, I sold that record in my parents record shop when it came out, about 1970, but would have never had the info on instruments, nice to learn this. A lot to take in and I appreciate the buffet you are all laying out. It is great to try to learn as much as I can about this subject. Thank You.

 

[fronobulax]

Some minor points.

A dealer I trust refuses to stock a maple guitar unless he has played it first. When they are good, they are very good but when they are bad they hang on the wall for months and get sold at a loss. So "try before buy" or get a good return policy might be more important for maple instruments.

Usually there is a standard order for the strings on a 12 but sometimes the high and low octave strings in a pair are reversed. That, I believe, is true of the Doyle Dykes model cited and some Rickenbacker electric 12's.

Some people tune a 12 down from concert pitch for various reasons (that have been much discussed and I don't necessarily agree are valid reasons ) but if you choose to do so and play with other people you will need to spend time tuning or use a capo. Not all capos work well on 12s and some people don't like the way the sound changes with a capo.

 

[HeyMikey]

Well Matthro, if you aren’t confused or overwhelmed by now you are doing much better than most, including myself!

The bottom line to understand is that nomenclature and specs are anything but consistent when it comes to Guild. Don’t rely or let the seller rely on web specs because they changed multiple times through the decades. If something is unclear and important to you then ask the seller to physically look at or take measurements for you.

When in doubt ask here as well.

 

[Guildedagain]

Maybe someone on the forum has your guitar, most folks here are very well versed in where a guitar needs work or not, and many have already been repaired.

For me the equation was always like this.

F112, too good a deal to pass up.

F212, pricier, more bling, tread carefully.

F212XL, a 70's model people seem to like a lot.

F312, dream on, but probably a fabulous sounding guitar, I like Rosewood's lush overtones, but they can get lost in a loud jam situation, the Hog cuts through better?

F412, something you read about.

F512, something you read about, used by a lot of famous players, John Denver being one.

F612, lifestyles of the rich and famous.

When you get into the G models, I'm lost.

Beyond Westerly, I now nothing.

 

[Boneman]

You’re welcome Matthro!

How do you like, or describe, the maple sound of the JF30-12?

I really like it, I would say clean and succinct is how I would describe it. I had the import Guild dreadnought sized all hog D1212 for a minute as my first 12, and while I enjoyed it and liked the “warmer” sounds the mahogany generated, the maple arch back is a whole nother league, and it is maybe “brighter”, more treble, but it resonated with me more.

 

[Guildedagain]

Maybe someone on the forum has your guitar, most folks here are very well versed in where a guitar needs work or not, and many have already been repaired.

For me the equation was always like this.

F112, too good a deal to pass up.

F212, pricier, more bling, tread carefully.

F212XL, a 70's model people seem to like a lot.

F312, dream on, but probably a fabulous sounding guitar, I like Rosewood's lush overtones, but they can get lost in a loud jam situation, the Hog cuts through better?

F412, something you read about.

F512, something you read about, used by a lot of famous players, John Denver being one.

F612, lifestyles of the rich and famous.

When you get into the G models, I'm lost.

Beyond Westerly, I know nothing.

 

[Guildedagain]

I really like this guy's playing, as I tire of endless and repetitive bluegrass runs that never let a guitar ring out for long. Personally I'd much rather get my Bluegrass out on a 6 string.



The 12 string is magic for DADGAD.

 

[adorshki]

Finally ;[]

It is a lot to take in at once.


adi rolls like that, like the Encyclopedia Britannica of Guild models, woods, size, shape, I imagine this what happens when you have

Like many other consequences of the vicissitudes of age, time is one thing I definitely don't have enough of in, er, on my hands.
I do however strive to use it well.

 

[mavuser]

@Matthro where are you located geographically?

I have

1965 F-312
1975 F-112
1981 D-212

looking to sell any or possibly all of them

 

[adorshki]

Thank you adorshki and Guildedagain for the follow-up. 'Question' by the Moody Blues, I sold that record in my parents record shop when it came out, about 1970, but would have never had the info on instruments, nice to learn this. A lot to take in and I appreciate the buffet you are all laying out. It is great to try to learn as much as I can about this subject. Thank You.

Note I did a bit of editing in my original post for clarity. Seemed OK last night before the beer wore off, not sure what happened.
Chaz was right about the F312 being 16" lower bout.

Note @Guildedagain's second vid in post #42 is an MIC (Made in China) model.

There are spec differences from the American versions and although well-built of for the most part quality materials, one thing I can't get past is their use of poly finish. For guitars I'd own, I'm an NCL purist. Also fret ends and tuning machines have been mentioned as weak points, as well as a single truss which as far as I know is NOT the same as the US truss rod with flanking beams, at least, never seen it stated.
Final note, curiously, the body dimensions of those F1512ce run about 3/8" shy of US specs: 16-5/8" lower bout instead of 17", and although Guild website shows 17" for the F2512ce, I suspect that's in error as the 2 models should be dimensionally identical. But anything's possible.

Oh yeah, finally, the guitar in post #49 vid is mis-identified, it's actually an F212XL. Think the 212FX is an obscure Infiniti model.

Edit: Just noticed Mavuser's post. I assure you he's a stand-up guy and long-time member in good standing, and I've never bought anything from him (ie I have no hidden interest). Many folks here can confirm though.

 

[Westerly Wood]

And finally I noticed Mavuser's notice. I assure you he's a stand-up guy and long-time member in good standing, and I've never bought anything from him (ie I have no hidden interest). Many folks here can confirm though.

I would totally buy a Guild from Mav...he's great. Always super knowledgeable and takes great care of his Guilds. Always has some interesting models as well.

 

[mavuser]

thanks, guys. I have a perfect track record packing and shipping guitars, both here and on ebay. I certainly pack them all "for the war."

However, part of my success, is occasionally for one reason or another, I hesitate to ship certain guitars. Any of these three I would ultimatley ship, but would greatly prefer not to, for a number of reasons. Not the least of which is the chance for the buyer to see, and play it, before they buy. That is why I asked where Matthro is located. I am in NY but generally travel around the east coast. also, a shorter shipping journey is always an easier deal than coast to coast.

 

[Matthro]

I appreciate all this information, fronobulax, HeyMikey, Guildedagain, Boneman, adorshki, and mavuser. I am North of the DFW, TX metro area. Mavuser, with fear and trembling I think I would like to at least learn a little about your two 'F' models, but don't want you to go to a lot trouble and then me just not be serious enough yet, but I am right now sitting on the edge of my seat. Let me know how I should go about contacting you or vice versa to look into this, I don't know the proper etiquette for this. Thank You, Westerly Wood for the added endorsement. I appreciate all you folks.

 

[Guildedagain]

Just think of it as an investment ;[]

I love snarkly Craigslist/FB Marketplace posts that say "Don't contact me if you haven't cleared this with your wife yet" lol...

 

[chazmo]

Matthro, click on the little envelope in the upper right corner of your LTG page. That will let you start a private conversation

 

[mavuser]

I appreciate all this information, fronobulax, HeyMikey, Guildedagain, Boneman, adorshki, and mavuser. I am North of the DFW, TX metro area. Mavuser, with fear and trembling I think I would like to at least learn a little about your two 'F' models, but don't want you to go to a lot trouble and then me just not be serious enough yet, but I am right now sitting on the edge of my seat. Let me know how I should go about contacting you or vice versa to look into this, I don't know the proper etiquette for this. Thank You, Westerly Wood for the added endorsement. I appreciate all you folks.

thanks for letting us know! I will send you a personal message today at some point. it is waaay too hot to ship an acoustic guitar to Dallas anytime soon however, so no hurry at all about being serious enough. You may find something else too before things cool off, even if one of mine interests you. all is cool in the gang!

 

[twocorgis]

I would totally buy a Guild from Mav...he's great. Always super knowledgeable and takes great care of his Guilds. Always has some interesting models as well.

I'll second that!

And to add to what others have said, I think the best bang for the buck USA made Guild 12 string has to be the Guild D212/D25-12. They are pretty much identical except for the missing Chesterfield on the headstock of the D25-12. I sold my '96 D25-12 to my bestie, and came to regret it, but a year ago or so he told me he wasn't really playing it (he's into mando now), so I bought it back. And it's staying now!

 

[adorshki]

I appreciate all this information, fronobulax, HeyMikey, Guildedagain, Boneman, adorshki, and mavuser. I am North of the DFW, TX metro area. Mavuser, with fear and trembling I think I would like to at least learn a little about your two 'F' models, but don't want you to go to a lot trouble and then me just not be serious enough yet, but I am right now sitting on the edge of my seat. Let me know how I should go about contacting you or vice versa to look into this, I don't know the proper etiquette for this. Thank You, Westerly Wood for the added endorsement. I appreciate all you folks.

One thing I can think of right off the bat is what nut width the '65 F312 has. Being that early It's a candidate for one of the ultra-wide and flat fingerboards. It's a bucket-list guitar for me, but I wouldn't be able to handle that wide of a nut (near full 2") on a 12-er.
Mav probably knows already.

Also many deals are finalized through private messaging ("Start Conversation" icon), primarily from "For Sale" listings here, but I don't think there's any rule against a simple sale occurring without a "For Sale" listing.

There're many good reasons for buyer and potential customer to converse in private. And for the most part members here are interested in seeing their instruments go to loving homes, and all things being equal the genuinely interested true buyer usually gets the instrument in preference to a "collector" or "flipper", sometimes even if they offer more.