New to Guild - Qs re 12-strings

I've been thinking about moving up to an all-solid-wood 12-string, and Guild certainly has an outstanding reputation in the used 12-string market. My "research" has brought up a number of questions:

1. When did Guild stop making the F-212, F-412, and F-512?
3. Is there really a certain year beyond which Guild 12's stopped being quite as good as they were before?
5. What's the difference between those "F" models and say the JF-55-12?
7. The F's are already jumbos; what's with the "XL" after some models?
9. I notice at least some of the F1512's have solid backs and sides. Why are they typically a lot less expensive than say the F-212?

My dream specs: Jumbo, solid rosewood back and sides, ebony fingerboard, sunburst, abalone rosette, d-tar.... that ought to about do it. :tiger:

Welcome. No answers for you except a general comment that it is difficult to generalize about Guild quality over various time periods. In other words there was no time when the 12s were better or worse than any other time. Your search will have to focus on specs and then on the models and times with those specs. Someone who knows what they are talking about will be along momentarily.

Cougar said:

I've been thinking about moving up to an all-solid-wood 12-string, and Guild certainly has an outstanding reputation in the used 12-string market. My "research" has brought up a number of questions:

1. When did Guild stop making the F-212, F-412, and F-512?
2. Is there really a certain year beyond which Guild 12's stopped being quite as good as they were before?
3. What's the difference between those "F" models and say the JF-55-12?
4. The F's are already jumbos; what's with the "XL" after some models?
5. I notice at least some of the F1512's have solid backs and sides. Why are they typically a lot less expensive than say the F-212?

My dream specs: Jumbo, solid rosewood back and sides, ebony fingerboard, sunburst, abalone rosette, d-tar.... that ought to about do it. :tiger:

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Welcome to LTG Cougar! I'll try to answer these as best I can

1. Guild stopped making the F212 a long time ago, but I'm not exactly sure when. The F412 and 512 were superseded for a time by the JF65-12 and JF55-12 respectively, but the names changed back when they moved to Corona CA ~2002.

2. I think that Guild 12ers are great regardless where they were made, but to me personally, the slightly thinner neck profile from the New Hartford (2009-2014) plant is best.

3. See comment above.

4. The F212XL was a jumbo bodied (17" lower bout, same as the F412 and 512) version of the F212 that stayed in production after the F212 was discontinued.

5. The F1512 is the Chinese version of the F512. It's all solid wood, but the ones I've played didn't do anything for me.

It sounds to me like your ideal guitar would be either at JF55-12 for Westerly ('87-2001, don't know if I've ever seen a burst one though EDIT: Check that, I think Treem has one) or an F512 from New Hartford). Some of the earlier JF55-12s don't have an Abalone rosette, but it was a running change along the way. If you like a fatter neck, go with the JF55-12, otherwise get the New Hartford F512. Mine is the last word in 12 strings as far as I'm concerned.

Also, let us help you find one. We're great at spending other people's money!

Welcome, Cougar!

walrus

Hey, Cougar. Welcome.

I agree with Sandy. Sounds like what you are looking for fits the exact descriiption of Guild's flagship 12-stringer, the F-512 (AKA JF-55-12) which is arguably the finest 12-string guitar ever made, period. If you don't believe me, go onto the Acoustic Guitar Forum and search 12-string in their general forum. The F-512 is the consensus pick for the "best 12-string" out there.

I would also encourage you to play a few of Guild's other 12-stringers before you make your move. There are a lot to choose from, including excellent examples in maple and mahogany, orchestra-sized to jumbo F-bodies, and a great bunch of 12-string dreadnoughts (which can usually be found for far less $ than the jumbos) that are exceptional values.

But if money is no object, and you are a fan of rosewood, it is a no brainer. F-512.

Neal

Glad to have you aboard Cougar. I'm pretty ignorant about 12 strings (along with pretty much everything else in life) but I think twocorgis gave you some pretty good info in the above comment. I have a G 312 I just picked up from a LTG member. Great guitar but I'm still struggling with the maintenance/care required to keep it in shape. It's the only one I have though so we'll see.

Good luck

Welcome aboard, Cougar. Enjoy the journey.

Problem with recommending the F-512/JF55-12 to you is that if you start there you'll be spoiled.

Seriously, though, don't count out the other smaller-bodied 12s in the line or even the dreads. Guild really drew a bead on the 12-string world.

Finally, you might also want to play Taylor's jumbo 12s. I have a solid maple 655 from the '80s that is really lovely. Sounds nothing like the F-512, but is a spectacular guitar nonetheless.

Welcome to LTG Cougar! Sandy gave you pretty much the info you need on your questions asked. I have owned several Guild 12 strings both Dreadnought and Jumbo bodies from all different eras and they have all been spectacular. According to your specs you are looking at the top of the line in the jumbo body. I have seen nice JF55-12's sell for as little as $1200 and as much as $1700 and higher in recent months. If you are lucky enough to find a New Hartford F512 model with the Dtar pickup for sale my advice would be to snag it while you can. They don't come up for sale often and if they do they don't stay for sale long. I have seen the New Hartford F512's in Great used shape sell for anywhere from $1800-$2500 lately. If you are lucky enough to find a dealer that still has one new you can expect to pay more than that. Production paused in early 2014 with sale of Guild to Cordoba. They plan on having American Production back up and running anytime now and should be making New F512's in the next few months.

Personally I currently own 2 Guild 12's, one 2014 F512 with a DTAR pickup and the ultra rare 1971 F612, Both rosewood and spruce. They are without a doubt the Cadillac of the 12 string world. If you do decide on a F512 or a JF55-12, you won't ever have a need for another 12 string. The GAD1512 is the Chinese version of the F512. It is a inch narrower at the lower bout and they are finished in Polyurethane instead of Nitrocellulose like the American made models. Great guitars for their price point but nowhere close to the real deal. Good luck in your search and like mentioned before we would be more than happy to help you find what you are looking for. Great forum here with lots of good info and good people.

twocorgis said:

Welcome to LTG Cougar! I'll try to answer these as best I can...

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Thanks, Sandy. You covered a lot!

twocorgis said:

1. Guild stopped making the F212 a long time ago, but I'n not exactly sure when. The F412 and 512 were superseded for a time by the JF65-12 and JF55-12 respectively, but the names changed back when they moved to Corona CA ~2002.
2. I thin that Guild 12ers are great regardless where they were made, but to me personally, the slightly thinner neck profile from the New Hartford (2009-2014) plant is best.

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Yes, I was reading the history of Guild is one of occasionally changing ownership... and obviously, plant locations. Good to hear your opinion that Guild 12s are pretty consistently great regardless. Makes selection easier. :encouragement:

twocorgis said:

It sounds to me like your ideal guitar would be either at JF55-12 for Westerly ('87-2001, don't know if I've ever seen a burst one though)....

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Apparently quite rare, if they exist; even the JF55 6-string burst is rare (like this (sold) one on Reverb from a year ago - "Most of these guitars are shipped in Natural. Only a very few get made in Sunburst."), but I'd sure like that burst on a 12...

twocorgis said:

....or an F512 from New Hartford... Mine is the last word in 12 strings as far as I'm concerned.

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That's what I've heard. I guess the mahogany or maple versions would also be excellent...

What's the story with the "arched back" 12-strings that have a laminate back? First I verified that these F-bodies are all solid wood, then I find out that some are not??

And how about an F412 with "figured maple" back? Solid or laminate?

twocorgis said:

Also, let us help you find one. We're great at spending other people's money!

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Well, heh, I've got to sell off a few of my 6-strings to be able to fund this adventure, but that might be going better than I thought, with a potential buyer coming to look at one today...

twocorgis said:

5. The F1512 is the Chinese version of the F512. It's all solid wood, but the ones I've played didn't do anything for me.

It sounds to me like your ideal guitar would be either at JF55-12 or an F512.

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I agree with the comments above.

Thanks all for the reception, and a lot of great info.

chazmo said:

Problem with recommending the F-512/JF55-12 to you is that if you start there you'll be spoiled.

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Well, I've been playing a Tak GJ72CE 12 and having such fun working on recording this old 60s piece with it, I figure it's time to get spoiled.

Nuthin' wrong with that, Cougar.

WELCOME TO LTG!
Great information already so I'll just add that you'll be happy, no matter which Guild 12 string you choose. After all, they are the best.
I recently had experience with an F212XL and the sound was heavenly.
My D4-12 has quite a story behind it but it performs well and sounds great to my ears.
So many choices....so little money. :single_eye:

*Nice avatar, BTW. Did you take the photo?

Cheers,
Joe

killdeer43 said:

So many choices....so little money. :single_eye:

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Ain't it the truth!

killdeer43 said:

*Nice avatar, BTW. Did you take the photo?

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Heck no. House cats are dangerous enough. :cat:

Welcome aboard.

The only thing I can add is that for the past 90-100 years American 12 string players have strung and tuned their instruments many different ways. You'll find standard tuning, lower than standard and higher than standard, with gauges adjusted accordingly. Therefore, one 12 string is not enough!

' Strang

I will add one more possible issue.
The necks on many Guild 12 strings are thick and could be hard to play over an extended amount of time.
I found this to be the case for me after owning 2 different Guild 12 strings.
The thick necks are partially due to the fact that Guild used 2 truss rods on their 12 string necks.
This changed when the factory was moved to New Hartford. The 12 strings from there only have one truss rod so the neck profile is slimmer and easier to play.

The big chunky Guild 12 string necks are not a problem for a lot of people but they just were too hard for me to fret.
With that said, I have never played a 12 string that could beat the sound of a Guild.

Ah Cougar are you the same as the Epi forum Cougar ? Welcome aboard

Rayk said:

Ah Cougar are you the same as the Epi forum Cougar ? Welcome aboard

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Hey Ray, yep, one and the same. I'm finally taking yours and others' advice and looking seriously into a Guild 12. How do you like that new piece, using the Tak 12?

This afternon, I broke out the F-212XL that I bought from Joe a few months ago, and man, that thing is simply amazing. Huge tone coming out of that sitka/mahogany jumbo 12! Magnificent.

Neal

Neal said:

This afternon, I broke out the F-212XL that I bought from Joe a few months ago, and man, that thing is simply amazing. Huge tone coming out of that sitka/mahogany jumbo 12! Magnificent.

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It's a pretty special guitar, for sure. Happy to hear the news. :encouragement:

Joe