D40 v D25, DC1E, DCE1, D15, D16, D17: Which do you prefer?

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

pjheff and HF want to know why some or most players prefer the D40. Any hex plan nations?

For my ears, hands, and eyes, low-end Guild hog dreads are the best bargain on the planet, whether spruce or hog top. For playability and sound, I don't know where I'd rank the few D40s I've played amongst the low-end Guild hog dreads. But a D40 wouldn't come out on top. One of the others with a hog top just might beat the ones with a spruce top.

 

[rws11]

I've never played a D40, or a 25. I do have a D17M that sounds great. I also have a couple of high end rosewood models that are great as well .....however, to my ear, the best sound comes out of my modestly priced DV4. But as we know sound preferability is subjective and individual. Still can't beat mahogany and spruce. IMO.
Richard

 

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

A hog top gives a different sound. That's why I like it--not that hog is better but that you get something you don't get with spruce. And of course spruce gives you something you don't get with hog. I'd like to hear a maple body with a hog top and a hosewood body with a hog top. But there is one hog top I don't like: Rosie O'Donnell.

An ebony board, which I've seen only on the D40, also gives a harder sound (to my ear).

We would all do well to remember that hearing is, indeed, subjective. I can barely hear a difference between Braz and Indian. I can't tell nickel strings from stainless. And I can't hear why the J200 is so popular.

 

[bluesypicky]

Hatted D,
I'm gonna have to start putting diapers on when I read your posts, the combination of that:

But there is one hog top I don't like: Rosie O'Donnell.

and looking at your avatar again, almost made a mess on me. :lol: (farm humor I guess)

From what I remember reading on the extensive D25 Vs D40 comparative analysis by our venerated Ad (or ski), he pointed out that the 40 had a more distinct audio separation between strings / notes played making it a finger picker's favorite, while the 25 was outpowering and outshining the 40......
As to the braz thing, I recently posted that I would be curious to hear it first hand (or ear), in order to determine whether the $2000 price difference with Indian hosewood is justified by some magical sound difference, or if it is mainly (as I somehow suspect) just for acquiring the bragging rights of saying "I own a Braz", (like Rosie).

I don't think there is any significant difference in sound between an ebony and a rosewood board, but to be entirely fair on that, the test would have to be done with switching both finger boards on the same guitar.... :shock:
The reason why I do favor ebony though, is that it is more durable (can't recall ever seeing an ebony board with the holes between frets made by finger pressure wear) and to my eyes it underlines a guitar better than rs, with the exception of some breathtaking Braz boards, of course.
Oh... and them shiny inlays look better on ebony also (for you blingers).

 

[Graham]

Of the couple I have played/owned on that list I would have to say the the D-40 that Scratch currently owns was far superior in sound and playability to anything else.

I owned two D-25s, a '76 and a '72 all hog flat back. Granted the set up that Scratch gets from his luthier are, IMO, top notch. Also the '72 that I had needed some work that Don the Bossman did for me, but neither D-25 spoke to me as much as that D-40.

 

[killdeer43]

The D25M that I sold to Doc is probably the best of this lot when it comes to personal preference.
When you get right down to it, it's right up there in the top 5 (maybe top 2) of all the guitars I've owned, including Martins, Gibsons, etc.

I know that Doc is enjoying it and his testimonial could be forthcoming. Take it away, Doc...... :wink:

Joe

 

[Ridgemont]

I have not had enough experience with the selected models to give an answer I am comfortable with. I can, however, attest to the fact that the arched D25s with spruce tops have a significant amount of sustain, are very loud, and have a bottom end that will knock your pants off.

I will make a comment to differences between a hog and spruce top. First off, the differences are so great, that the guitars should not even be considered related. The added stiffness in the hog top gives a guitar that is brighter, yet darker and more mysterious. Let me explain. The highs pierce right through you with very metallic shrill or bite. I believe Pascal has referred to this as a "quack." To my ears the low end is hollow and echos. It is a dry echo. It still has that quack, but is not as warm and smooth as a spurce top. Overall there is a coarseness to the guitar. It really is a wonderful sound. Any hog lover should have one.

 

[adorshki]

pjheff and HF want to know why some or most players prefer the D40.

In fact I'm not sure if "most" could be borne out, going strictly by the numbers. The D25 all by itself is Guild's single highest volume production. I just think we're seein' a lot of discussion about D40's lately. And about 25% of those discussions are about the availability of an Adirondack top. SO I think maybe that's generating some buzz.
Since I've got both, I'll repeat what I've been sayin' for a few months now: MY D40 at least, has better "note" definition than either of my two archbacks, at the expense of sustain, in fact probably BECAUSE of that. I think that's all there is to it. Archback vs flatback, which do you prefer? Or do you just like to have both options available, like me?
You also note D40's ebony fretboard. I thought you had to move up to a D50 to get an ebony board, but I agree with you about it having some influence on overall tone. And I'm not as well versed in variations in D40's as D25's so there may very well be D40's with ebony boards and bridges.
That may well have been the case in the era when D25's WERE flatbacks and probably the biggest difference between the two WAS the 'hog top on a '25.
Out of all 3 of mine, the D40's got the least "complex" timbres, but it's steadily growin' on me.

 

[twocorgis]

You also note D40's ebony fretboard. I thought you had to move up to a D50 to get an ebony board, but I agree with you about it having some influence on overall tone. And I'm not as well versed in variations in D40's as D25's so there may very well be D40's with ebony boards and bridges.

Al, someone might correct me here if I'm wrong, but I've never seen a D40 with an ebony fretboard. I suppose there might have been a special edition or the like that had one, but none of the production versions AFAIK.

 

[adorshki]

Al, someone might correct me here if I'm wrong, but I've never seen a D40 with an ebony fretboard. I suppose there might have been a special edition or the like that had one, but none of the production versions AFAIK.

Yeah I just wanted to point I wasn't 100% positive. Even when I am , sometimes Hans'll toss out another nugget of info, just to keep things accurate... :lol:
And I guess I should have noted that while I agreed with Darryl about some influence on tone, I think the bigger reason for using ebony boards is durability, as our esteemed Bluesypicky mentioned.
What this thread really needs is for Bluesy to pick up a D40 and do some A/B vids between that and his flatback/hogtop D25. THEN we could tell what's what.
He was kind enough to try out an archback '25 on my suggestion last year, so maybe this wouldn't be asking too much of him... :lol:

 

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

Addie,

I heard or read somewhere that a few D40's had an ebony board. And there's a Gibson in New Zealand with an emory board.

Units sold doesn't indicate preference. If it did, there would be a lot more high-end guitars, cars, 'puters, TVs, boats, etc. And Rosie would have a kick starter on her vibrator.

Some people can hear the difference between board woods. The only difference I ever noticed was a D66 with a rosewood board, possibly the only rosewood dread with a roswood board that Guild ever made. But as bp says, everything else about two guitars being compared would have to be the same--no other variables.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
bp,

Yes I too prefer ebony for structural integrity. But hog is supposed to be stronger and more stable than rosewood, so I wonder why they don't make hog boards.

For appearance, I want an ebony board to come with an ebony bridge, ebony peghead overlay, black pukeguard, and black binding. And any red, purple, or gold guitar looks better to me if it has all black trim.

Similarly, I want a rosewood fondleboard to come with a rosewood bridge, rosewood peghead overlay, reddish brown pickguard, and tan binding. And any yellow, brown, or green guitar looks better to me with all brown trim.

 

[bluesypicky]

What this thread really needs is for Bluesy to pick up a D40 and do some A/B vids between that and his flatback/hogtop D25. THEN we could tell what's what.
He was kind enough to try out an archback '25 on my suggestion last year, so maybe this wouldn't be asking too much of him... :lol:

Always up for some playin'!.... The D40 isn't in my purchasing target though, but I will one day give the D25 arched back another chance, as it is obvious I wasn't patient enough on my first attempt, when I hear it now after a pro set up. It is probably the loudest and brightest acoustic I've ever heard. A strummer's dream really, which I'm not much of, but given the deals I see on some of them I probably will own another one some day. It IS a beast.
Oops.... just read another Rosie episode.. The kick starter!!!! gotta go clean up! :lol:

 

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

I should have mentioned flat v arched backs. With all of the hog bodies above, do spruce tops always get a flat back? And do hog tops always get an arched back? Speakiing of an arched back, Emmylou had me over.... Oh you guys wouldn't believe it.

 

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

Poor Rosie. She just isn't a convincing female impersonator.

 

[killdeer43]

and have a bottom end that will knock your pants off.

No comment at this juncture! :lol:

Joe

 

[GardMan]

Post-74ish D-25s and there brethren are spruce tops with arched mahogany backs (as were various 12 strings), and the G-37, D-30, G-45/Hank Williams Jr, one of the D-6X models, F-40, and F-50 (maple version, not the R) morphs were spruce tops with arched maple backs. So mahogany/spruce tops and flat/arched backs are not correlated...

I don't have a D-40, but I have it's less expensive sister, a D-35 (my first Guild, and only one bought new) and a similarly aged D-25M. Very different sounds that I use for very different things. Both are spruce topped, but on arched back mahogany (D-25) or flat back mahogany (D-35) bodies. I agree, the flat backed D-35 has more note separation, overall more brightness, less bass, and less projection and sustain than the D-25. Not better or worse, just different. My D-35 alternates between standard tuning and open C. The D-25 rarely comes out of DADGAD.
D

 

[Graham]

I should have mentioned flat v arched backs. With all of the hog bodies above, do spruce tops always get a flat back?

Other way 'round Doc.

The all hog D-25s before '73, I'll be corrected of course, were flat back. The spruce topped D-25's after '74 are arch topped.

 

[Ridgemont]

and have a bottom end that will knock your pants off.

No comment at this juncture! :lol:

Joe

A nice bottom end that knocks your pants of never hurt anybody. :wink:

 

[killdeer43]

and have a bottom end that will knock your pants off.

No comment at this juncture! :lol:

Joe

A nice bottom end that knocks your pants of never hurt anybody. :wink:

To reiterate:
No comment at this juncture! :lol:

Joe

 

[twocorgis]

Poor Rosie. She just isn't a convincing female impersonator.

:lol: :lol: :lol: