Ethical Question

[spoox]

Threaten the maker you'll do this to his guitar if he doesn't let you return it:

Converting a Cheap Acoustic Guitar to a Cheap Resonator Guitar

Converting a Cheap Acoustic Guitar to a Cheap Resonator Guitar: So I bought a cheap acoustic guitar ($15) from Goodwill and thought it would be interesting project to turn it into a cheap resonator guitar. After checking online and seeing what others had done, I did pretty much the same with a...

www.instructables.com

Not as aesthetically pleasing an the epoxy encasement, but it might even sound better...

 

[Canard]

So this thread started me down a rabbit hole - actually I just peeked in and didn't go too far.

Wolf notes are caused by the interactions of the strings with both the resonant frequencies of the guitar body (that is the air in the guitar body) and the resonant frequencies of the guitar top and/or guitar back.

Fixing top resonance can be as simple as figuring out where to add a modest amount of mass to the top in a specific location to change the frequency and mode of the top resonance. I saw Blu-Tack mentioned over and over again as the way to figure out the location of whatever permanent solution you implement.

I saw changing string brands and gauges as well as changing tunings mentioned as solutions.

If it were me, I'd jump down the rabbit hole head first and try to resolve the issue.

Doing so could make you the Wolf Note Knowledge King of LTG.

A lot of wolf notes are quite frequency specific if they are created by the top. These are easier to track down and are sometimes only seasonal. They commonly occur at only one or two places on the fret board. There are magnetically mounted wolf-note modulator devices made for cellos to deal with these type of wolf notes, and I have seen these used for carved spruce top archtops. They go in through an F-hole and are retained and moved by a magnet outside on the top. They do the job of Blu-Tack but better since they don't actually dampen the top but modulate its vibration.

Krentz Modulator - Krentz String Works

The Krentz Modulator changes, rather than absorbing vibrations from the top of the cello. As a result, there is no depreciation in sound quality. Rather, the device actually increases the efficiency of the instrument, allowing the musician to subtly control important aspects of the instrument’s...

krentzstringworks.com

Blu-Tack has been tried on the top, back and sides but with no effect except mildly dampening volume.

Some wolf-notes can be controlled/mitigated by head stock weights. Weight has been clamped to the head stock temporarily. No effect.

Some wolf tones require neck shaving to reduce the mass of the neck. This has not been done.

I have tried a wide variety of strings. Some are better than others (Savrez wound) but none are acceptable.

On and on.

I have been through all this with the best of the luthiers I went to see.

The guitar problem here is more complex. There are false overtones all over the map. No obvious/easy solution, only expensive trial and error with no guarantees.. The verdict was hang it on the wall-it's pretty.

If I tune it down to C or C# the problem is greatly reduced (D isn't low enough), but this low tuning introduces other problems. B might be even better but the guitar is too small to be a good baritone.

 

[adorshki]

A lot of wolf notes are quite frequency specific if they are created by the top. These are easier to track down and are sometimes only seasonal. They commonly occur at only one or two places on the fret board. There are magnetically mounted wolf-note modulator devices made for cellos to deal with these type of wolf notes, and I have seen these used for carved spruce top archtops. They go in through an F-hole and are retained and moved by a magnet outside on the top. They do the job of Blu-Tack but better since they don't actually dampen the top but modulate its vibration.

Krentz Modulator - Krentz String Works

The Krentz Modulator changes, rather than absorbing vibrations from the top of the cello. As a result, there is no depreciation in sound quality. Rather, the device actually increases the efficiency of the instrument, allowing the musician to subtly control important aspects of the instrument’s...

krentzstringworks.com

Blu-Tack has been tried on the top, back and sides but with no effect except mildly dampening volume.

Some wolf-notes can be controlled/mitigated by head stock weights. Weight has been clamped to the head stock temporarily. No effect.

Some wolf tones require neck shaving to reduce the mass of the neck. This has not been done.

I have tried a wide variety of strings. Some are better than others (Savrez wound) but none are acceptable.

On and on.

I have been through all this will the best of the luthiers I went to see.

The guitar problem here is more complex. There are false overtones all over the map. No obvious/easy solution, only expensive trial and error with no guarantees.. The verdict was hang it on the wall-it's pretty.

If I tune it down to C or C# the problem is greatly reduced (D isn't low enough), but this low tuning introduces other problems. B might be even better but the guitar is too small to be a good baritone.

You could use it to learn how to re-set a neck. I mean, what've you got to lose?

 

[GGJaguar]

Maybe have it re-topped?

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

. . . Canard[/USER] thinks it is a piece of junk. Can they ethically do anything other than destroy it? . . .

Is it ethical to burn badly written books?

It's likely someone will want it. There's nothing wrong with selling it as long as Canard doesn't lie about it.

- Buyer: "Is there anything wrong with it?"

- Canard: "It's beautiful. I just don't like how it sounds."

As I said, it should be an in-person sale, not by internet. And as others above have said, if Canard can't or doesn't want to sell it. Craig's free section is a great place to unload what you don't want.

 

[Guildedagain]

a really cheap Stella acoustic that played and sounded lousy

Besides loose definitions of lousy, as well as different perceptions, the little Stella is perfectly capable of stellar tone with decent strings and commonly misunderstood floating bridge actually in the right place. Also famous enough to have been written about in a book, Stellas and Stratocasters.

 

[gjmalcyon]

On and on.

I have been through all this will the best of the luthiers I went to see.

You must already be the Wolf Note Knowledge King of LTG - I did not realize you were way down the rabbit hole.

I'm trying to imagine what detail of construction or materials would cause a guitar to have wolf notes all over the place since most of what you read puts wolf notes at no more than a couple of frequencies on most guitars. A highly reflective interior of the guitar? A top and/or back that is unusually "musical"? I imagine the top ringing like a bell when tap-tested.

I wonder if a Tone Rite or Tone Traveler would do anything?

 

[fronobulax]

Is it ethical to burn badly written books?

It's likely someone will want it. There's nothing wrong with selling it as long as Canard doesn't lie about it.

- Buyer: "Is there anything wrong with it?"

- Canard: "It's beautiful. I just don't like how it sounds."

As I said, it should be an in-person sale, not by internet. And as others above have said, if Canard can't or doesn't want to sell it. Craig's free section is a great place to unload what you don't want.

Bad analogy.

Canard has already established that in their opinion the instrument is not fit for purpose. They have also established that the potential for fraud in a future transaction is a concern for them. So should they do what they think is the wrong thing just because someone might disagree with their assessment?

I have destroyed books that I owned, regretted purchasing and felt the world would be better off if I destroyed my copy.

(Note that I am talking about personal, property and my opinion. The comment does not generalize to, for example, someone else's access to the book in a library or bookstore).

The advice to talk to the maker remains IMO the best.

 

[SFIV1967]

You could use it to learn how to re-set a neck. I mean, what've you got to lose?

Good luck if she has a Spanish heel! (which she might have?)

Ralf

 

[Rocky]

Maybe Quentin Tarantino could use it?

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

. . . The advice to talk to the maker remains IMO the best.

Just on principle, I wouldn't burn a book or smash a guitar, perfectly good or not. But you're right: If Canard hasn't talked to the maker yet, that's certainly and clearly the first step.

 

[Guildedagain]

I have destroyed books that I owned, regretted purchasing and felt the world would be better off if I destroyed my copy.

Amen.

I not too long ago bought a latter day "Book of Wisdom" that seemed like a good idea at the time, and just a few minutes after leafing through it I threw on the fire starter pile, highly unusual for me, I'm generally a lover of books and have way too many, and mostly unread. The unread book thing turns out to be a known condition so that's a good thing to know, you're not alone.

It sat there for a while, until the need to make a fire, which gave me time to read a couple pages, and I actually enjoyed watching the pages burn.

Our special relationship with fire harnesses it in a way that makes our lives better.

 

[Nuuska]

This is an interesting dilemma. I am in a situation, where an object has to be sold without letting out the original owner. Because the estate wants to get rid of it - but not wishing it being in circulation as the ex-object of so-and-so. Money is not the question. They know me and trust me. My lips are sealed. Who knows - it might "meet the bandsaw" in the end - if no reasonable solution exists.

It has to be handled carefully - and so far I think @Canard is doing it quite respectfully - hope it turns out right.

 

[Bill Ashton]

Wasn't there a member here that did a thing with guitars for vets? For rehab? What better place to move that guitar to. It will sound like aces to whomever gets it, and if they move it on at some point you are insulated...the buyer will think that they made big score, and the luthier gets his name besmirched...seems like a win/win to me. You might even get a tax right off for the donation?

 

[Guildedagain]

I'm keeping more guitars than intended because extreme crybaby guitar returns are just too common, issues ranging from brand new guitars "that don't play like they should at that price" to guitars that simply "don't move" a seller, as if they were supposed to have some quasi religious experience comensurate with a price point, like "a $5k guitar should have 'perfect' action - every day, rain or shine - and make you feel really great in every way possible", anything else is unnacceptable and getting returned.

I'm sitting on a guitar I sold that came back after getting where it was going and having way higher action there than it did here, much damper there, and the buyer contacted me to let me know that he both "had tightened the truss rod until it couldn't go no more and that he was returning the guitar".

Why am I bringing this up?

Because this toxic crybaby buyer market has made me completely pull the plug on any guitars that could become a problem, really meaning nearly all, but especially vintage Strats because of the potential hassles, I have to either break up a guitar/sell body and neck separate, which I actually did, and might do again, although you can be completely up front about a guitar's problems, list them, the ones you know of and say "Guitar is sold As Is" which implies known issues, fully disclosed, and protection from any further defects that you missed or happen in transit.

I should be quite clear about that. It's As Is when you open the box. The Mack truck tire treads across the package are beyond my control.

This would be a tragic guitar to "lose" or otherwise come to some dark end on the road. I mean, who here hasn't hoped a similar fate happened to some awful guitar that really deserved it? Truly a great way out of a problem instrument but Murphy says this only happens to really fine instruments.

Happy selling ;]

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

If there were a serious/talented kid in the neighbourhood whose parents couldn't afford a guitar, I would rather just sell my case honestly and use the money to buy a used Godin-family acoustic . . . .

Well, of course you'd sell it honestly!

By the way, have you heard back from the luthier yet?

 

[fronobulax]

Wasn't there a member here that did a thing with guitars for vets? For rehab? What better place to move that guitar to. It will sound like aces to whomever gets it, and if they move it on at some point you are insulated...the buyer will think that they made big score, and the luthier gets his name besmirched...seems like a win/win to me. You might even get a tax right off for the donation?

That advice assumes that Carnard and their luthiers are not capable of recognizing that a guitar is a piece of junk. Just because something is a charity doesn't mean it is a trash can.

 

[Guildedagain]

Is there a recording, is this [flaw] recordable?

 

[Uke]

Wasn't there a member here that did a thing with guitars for vets? For rehab? What better place to move that guitar to. It will sound like aces to whomever gets it, and if they move it on at some point you are insulated...the buyer will think that they made big score, and the luthier gets his name besmirched...seems like a win/win to me. You might even get a tax right off for the donation?

I am one of those members who gave a guitar to the vets organization; the leader of the group was very appreciative, and I felt it went to a good home. I gave it to the group in good faith that it would be used by someone connected to that group. I think Dread has been involved with the vets group up in Michigan, I think.

 

[chazmo]

Very interesting problem, honestly, Canard. I really wish I could hear your guitar in person.

For myself, the important thing is to make my conscience clear. I was kind of joking when I posted the trebuchet video before, but that is indeed one way to go. I don't know if I'd actually destroy the instrument if I were in your shoes, but I might, or somehow mark it up so that it no longer looks perfect. The problem, which all manufacturers know, is that once an item hits the used market, it'll get resold and valued based on many other things and your disclosures will not follow the instrument. That's why the scrupulous car manufacturers, for example, destroy cars that have issues or shipping problems from the factory. It's all about their reputations.

Anyway, whatever you do, good luck with your decisions and future actions.