Ethical Question

[zulu]

Time for a Hot Mess Mod!

 

[Bill Ashton]

That advice assumes that Carnard and their luthiers are not capable of recognizing that a guitar is a piece of junk. Just because something is a charity doesn't mean it is a trash can.

Frono, not quite I understand your comment. There is no question in my mind that Brother Canard can spot
a gem from a clinker, but there may be others that are not so...exacting? Example: I really do not like the tone
of the M20, whether old or new, nor a Gibson L-GO nor and of the new Collings Waterloo's...my ear, but many
many people love 'em. If said guitar plays well, there may be some sole who would never begin to get a guitar
constructed as well and may think its great, especially for free or low money. Should it get moved on in the future,
so what? Buyer beware. Of course, "2nd" could always be punched or printed next to the serial number...

 

[Canard]

No reply from the maker, yet.

I would imagine mine would be an odd message to be in the in-box for info@.

At this point, there would seem to be two options: they think about it for a bit but eventually get back to me; they ignore it.

Maybe next week?

 

[Guildedagain]

There is no question in my mind that Brother Canard can spot
a gem from a clinker,

Ahh, but what is a gem, or clinker?

I love chicken gizzards but not everyone does.

Cilantro? Heaven to some, horrid to others.

To assume we all hear, see, feel the same would be insane.


In fact, my ears aren't the same every day at all. Some days I crave distortion, can't get enough, the next day I don't want any, can't stand it.

Back to Stellas RB was kind enough to mention. In my guitar aquisition days, I bought every single Stella I could get my hands on, and so I sold a few too, upgrading.

And I was selling a Stella on CL in the "good old days" I let a couple teenage kids - emo - show up at the house and play a Stella in the kitchen, and the kid couldn't even tune a guitar and made it worse when he tried, but even tuned right, he says to the other kid "It sounds like a cheap guitar", a very astute kid because they are a cheap guitar, $75 price for an all solid wood vintage American guitar with original case.

I never sold that Stella, still have it, and a local legend country/rock songwriter friend of mine who typically plays a D28 on stage fell in love with the Stella just three chords into a song, and on the spot offered to trade me his other guitar straight across, a nice vintage Yamaha acoustic, worth twice the Stella easily but I declined because of the Stella's obvious charm.

So what sounds horrible to one person - like my boss who liked country trying to listen to TOOL back in the 90's - might sound fabulous to another.

I'd look for a player who enjoys cacophony and can put it to good use.


I sold cars to make ends meet one summer, and a huge lesson I learned from my sleazebag mentor was that "There's an @ss for every seat" as he kindly told me as I was complaining that some old Buick on the lot I had just showed smelled like it had been barfed in before I hurriedly rolled all the windows down, and that no one would ever buy the car like that without a detailing, and he assured me I was quite wrong, and I probably was, and this advice covers pretty much everything else in life, like finding a partner, or selling a guitar.

As I've been downsizing my collection, I've sent dozens of truly questionable items to people who apparently love them. When you're not looking at an item through a lens of love, and you truly see something for what it is, and are having second thoughts about sending like "How could someone like this?" just put it in the mail an forget about it.

As well as some buyers are clearly insane, and this can go in your favor.

I sold my beloved but feared too loud '72 Dobro on the Verb last year. Dude tells me how "he's going to take all apart as soon as he gets it" - one of them newfangled kind of buyers who's gonna make it better, already knows how he's going to ruin it, etc - and he's going to work over the chrome spider with Miuriatic acid, and my 1st thought was "it's all yours from the second you do that.".

Then he contacts me some weeks later to tell me that he's having action issues and he wants to return it. This isn't made up, the comms are in Reverb.

He took it to a famed luthier in his area, name withheld, a famous builder actually who sorted it out, and he was still writing me about this months later.

 

[Bill Ashton]

How can the action be bad on a dobro, LOL!

 

[Canard]

May I ask a favour? Can we dial things down a bit here?

I am starting to feel like Lord Peter Baelish by having started this thread.

The guitar at the moment sounds very dead. I am not going to restring it.

Two or three years ago when I was considering being an evil bastard, I put an ad in CL saying that I wanted some used classical strings, the deader, the grimier, and the more notched, the better - needed for a special recording project. A guy who maintains a fleet of guitars at a school, contacted me. We agreed on a price of $5 to make it worth his while. A friend who lives near him picked them up. The package was a fat envelope containing multiple sets of the worst condition strings I have ever seen. I chose the worst of the worst and put them on the guitar, removing the Savarez (all wounds) set. This change tamed the problem to some degree. I then took the guitar on a tour of local pawn shops. Most people there had no clue as to what it was, despite the obvious label on the case. Like ... all classical guitars are the same, eh? Not everyone who works in a pawn shop is bright or crafty. But one guy got all reserved and sly and spent a long time looking at his computer. He also went to the trouble of checking the serial number in the police database. He pitched an (pawn rather than buy) offer which while substantial for a pawn shop was absurdly low (if it were a great guitar). I was tempted, but I could not bring myself to do it. I kept thinking about the poor schnook who might come in and buy the guitar at the prices then asked on line.

It was made in 1992. It was then the top of the line classical model. Spruce, (Indian) rosewood, mahogany, and ebony. 4 years earlier it might also have had ivory. The time was a period of transition for the maker, moving from a luthier's workshop with apprentices to a (very) small factory environment. Top of the line models were still entirely luthier-built. The maker is much larger now.

If I get a response from maker that puts them in a favourable light, I will identify the guitar. It really is not typical of their product.

I was a bit on the high side for my guess at a price. US prices seem to have depreciated slightly, maybe in the $2K to $2.5 range. It is hard to say. None appear to be available for sale. Regional prices might vary.

Some more pics. It is classical guitar, plain and simple.

 

[davismanLV]

Sure is a pretty thing!! Wow!!

 

[Nuuska]

I hope the company eventually answers - you have been VERY patient about this.

 

[Canard]

I hope the company eventually answers - you have been VERY patient about this.

The company has no obligation here other than to protect their reputation. They do offer life-time warranties to original purchasers, but unfortunately I do not fall into that category. They have no real obligation to me other than the simple politeness of acknowledging my message to them. We shall see what happens.

 

[Nuuska]

Hi

One guitar's replacement or fixing cost for them is peanuts compared to losing reputation.

Just make sure that they know that, too.

 

[adorshki]

Hi

One guitar's replacement or fixing cost for them is peanuts compared to losing reputation.

Just make sure that they know that, too.

I might have missed it in an earlier post, but Canard says it was built in '92. It's a 30-year old guitar. Who knows what could have happened to it since it was built to cause the problem?

Sure it had a lifetime warranty but Canard explains he's not the original owner. All he can do is observe how the company responds to his report of a 30-year old product appearing to be defective.

Sure it could be an opportunity to build some fantastic good will and perhaps even publicity. I don't think they need to be "reminded" of what an unfavorable report could do to their rep. If it was me, I'd see it as coercion which would damage the complainer's credibility.

At this point I think Canard gets that and I understand his approach. It gives 'em a chance to take the high road without appearing to have caved in to pressure. Which would call into question the quality of the final service rendered anyway, for me at least.

 

[GAD]

One guitar's replacement or fixing cost for them is peanuts compared to losing reputation.

Just make sure that they know that, too.

That’s called extortion.

 

[Canard]

That’s called extortion.

Uhhhh ... like ... this is a nice guitar business you got here. Be too bad if somethin' happened to it, eh?

 

[Canard]

Who knows what could have happened to it since it was built to cause the problem?

I can pretty much assure you that nothing has happened to the guitar in its entire life. I don't think it was even played before it came to me, at least not much. Total closet queen. It is odd in that it is a guitar for which the street price in 1992 would have been about $2400 US in today's money.

There is only one small mark on it where an improperly tied treble string slipped its knot at the bridge and then whipped around to leave a tiny almost invisible mark on the surface of the top below the bridge. That's it.

Two of the luthiers asked where I got the guitar because they said it seemed to be new, no dust inside, no grime, no wear. Everything except for the one small mark on the top looks perfect.

The case looks absolutely new, too. Has the case candy, too.

 

[adorshki]

I can pretty much assure you that nothing has happened to the guitar in its entire life. I don't think it was even played before it came to me, at least not much. Total closet queen. It is odd in that it is a guitar for which the street price in 1992 would have been about $2400 US in today's money.

There is only one small mark on it where an improperly tied treble string slipped its not a the bridge and then whipped around to leave a tiny almost invisible mark on the surface of the top below the bridge. That's it.

Two of the luthiers asked where I got the guitar because they said it seemed to be new, no dust inside, no grime, no wear. Everything except for the one small mark on the top looks perfect.

The case looks absolutely new, too. Has the case candy, too.

Speaking of bridges, has anybody ever thought about adding a bit of extra mass inside the body, right under the bridge? Might act as a stray resonance sink?

If it were removable (putty?) then one could experiment with effect of different weights before deciding to make it more permanent.

 

[Canard]

Speaking of bridges, has anybody ever thought about adding a bit of extra mass inside the body, right under the bridge? Might act as a stray resonance sink?

If it were removable (putty?) then one could experiment with effect of different weights before deciding to make it more permanent.

Done inside and/or outside with BluTack. No difference.

 

[Guildedagain]

it seemed to be new

Indicating a possible problem right from the start? Unplayed = unenjoyed, whether one caused the other the result is the same, but for me suspicious.

Murphy's Law states that mint guitars will be black holes of tonesuck, and beat up guitars will sound magically delicious. Trigger is the embodiment of this phenomenon. Guitars sound exponentially better with "honest wear".


Possibly some relic-ing to free up the tone?

Raffle tickets to destroy the guitar, for charity of course.

 

[Canard]

Murphy's Law states that mint guitars will be black holes of tonesuck, and beat up guitars will sound magically delicious.

I suppose I could attach it to one of my speaker towers with painter's tape, dig my son's old multi-disk CD player out of storage, pool our AC/DC CDs, load the player, set it on infinite repeat, crank the amp to 11, and then go out of town for a few days. Neighbours might complain but what the hey!

 

[Guildedagain]

A weekend of Hawkwind at "dangerous sound pressure levels" should do it ;]

 

[adorshki]

A weekend of Hawkwind at "dangerous sound pressure levels" should do it ;]

Well, since it's a classical, perhaps Baden Powell?



When I grow up I want to play like that guy.