New here, got the Guild bug again... in two parts ;-)

New here, got the Guild bug again... in two parts ;-) 1990 D4-12NT vs F-112?


New here, got the Guild bug again...

Just picked up a Guild in my endless quest for guitars... Wasn't trying to buy it, made a minimum bid on a D4-12NT on feeBay, no-one else wanted it apparently, and it is on the way here. Serial number checks out as a 1990. Very early number. Sooo... why didn't anybody want this guitar, and wth did I just buy?

Reviews and videos are actually excellent, so it's a good guitar that is simply not desirable? Or this one just happens to have some dark cloud over it? As I was talking to the seller on the phone about tracking this am (he's in FL, I'm in WA "The EverGreen State" ;-) , literally, lightning flashed (great time to be on a land line, right? ;-) and the house shook from the thunder, what a strange omen... ;-)

Anyway, the bad part of all this is I'm seriously GASSING for a different 12 string, a late 70's F112 I had found in my searches, really more up my alley as far as it's "vintage entourage" would be, my '72 Martin D-28, some other assorted junk, '72 metal Dobro, more assorted junk, Teles, Strats, Danos, Ampeg/Marshall amps, etc...

So, the D4 is a Dreadnaught, made from halfway decent woods, and is somewhat vintage, and is supposed to be quite playable with low action. The other guitar looks way cooler, might not play as well, although despite the usual wear it seems to have no issues, and the seller is a dealer, so experienced in selling guitars.

My burning question is...

What the F is a (pardon the pun please ;-) is an F122, and to answer my own question it is the bottom of the line of the "12" series, culminating with the ever popular, and PRICEY F512, but... my real question is?

Just how good does an F112 SOUND, compared to a 212? And am I to assume there was a 312, 412?

All I've seen listed or discussed (Actually, Wikipedia has a great list of Guild Artists, including Townsend, etc, he played a 512, lots of other guys/gals too, and 212's but I don't recall seeing other models in the F range, except for, wait? The other F range, F-30 etc, now I'm really confused?

Are the F-30, etc, bigger bodied "jumbo" guitars? The F series look like they are all the same body shape, to me, F-30, F-512, etc. What is the difference there, just cosmetics?

So, wow... delving into this world of Guild (old Guilds, I have no interest in new guitars, or anything newer than late 90's in fact) is both highly educational, and still confusing.

Which lead me here to get answers.

I feel "Guilded again" because I had a pretty intense love affair with a Guild Dreadnaught once, don't quite remember what it was, a D-35 I think, I still have pictures of it, taken with a film camera if that tells you anything...

I had bought it at a somewhat legendary local Pawnshop (RIP Dutch's), always colorful in there... grouchy owner... bad deals, in fact, their sign out front read "Surly Staff, Poor Selection, High Prices" LOLOLLOLLLLL and it was actually pretty much true... so funny... but I digress.

I had bought the Guild there, $600-700 I don't remember exactly, and it needed a little tlc, and I gave it tlc, lots, made my own bone saddle, maybe the nut also, can't quite remember, but I fussed, and I fussed, until it sounded beautiful, and played great!

Then I got bored with it...

I swear, you take a mechanic type guy like me, and half the fun is the project, and then you're bored with it afterwards... (plus, I'm horrible on the guitar and I don't deserve a guitar this good...) so I stuck it on eBay, bout 10 years ago or so (high price, of course ;-), and Dang It, somebody bought it, but... the cool part was that the "bloke" was in Merrie Olde England and was a personal/recording/gigging/songwriting mate of none other than Ray and whatever his brother's name is Davies, of "little known" Kinks fame, so that was very very cool.

But I still miss the Old Guild, "the one that got away"...

End of Part 1, see next post for part two, it would not let me submit it, "over 10000 characters"...

Part 2 of being re-bitten by the Guild bug, and how, and why... ;-)

So, how did I get here? Wanting a 12 string, and ending up with a Guild?

I got the previously mentioned '72 metal boded Dobro (roundneck) on eBay this Spring (Pawnshop in San Diego), terrible ad, pretty good price, and a pretty dang good Dobro except for some sea air corrosion issues to the Nickel finish, as in it is basically pure gray and rough t the touch, but looks pretty cool actually and really makes the cone stand out almost as if it was wooden bodied.

I got the Dobro because when I played a metal bodied Dobro at a Jam this winter in the Bay Area, and Wow!, it kind of blew me away, that natural Reverb and ring those things have.

So I got one (had to have one, right?), and started playing it, and... finally after umpteen years, my slide playing finally stated to take off, and pretty soon I'm tuning just about every guitar I had to open E or D, and it wasn't too far down the road this fairly minty 60's vintage Stella 12 string got the treatment, and WOW!!! That totally blew me away, and it wasn't long before I realized that an electric 12 string would be incredible (as I was daily transferring all this new found playing knowledge to the electric guitar with very satisfying results, either on a dark sunburst "55-77" Les Paul Special with P90's or a '74 Strat in lovely aged Olympic White, either through a '76 Marshall JMP50 Combo/'66 Fender Blackface Reverb, or a '73 Ampeg 100W Reverb head (forget the model designation) sitting on a '71 SVT 8x10 cab with all original cones, and assorted overdrives of course...

I will try to add pictures as I go ;-)

So, I get this 12 string Electric on eBay, ashamed to even say what it is... but it's actually pretty cool, 1985 Hondo "Fame" 660/12 Candy Apple Red in Strat configuration, spent about a week (or two) sorting that thing out, ended with the guts out of a '78 Strat in there, did a few other things to it, (factory 12 string bridge saddles on these instruments remind me of something from a Jaws poster from the 70's), the guitar rocks, the tone is just amazing... What was even more amazing was to have the guy at another local Pawnshop tell me that "he would go home - all the way across town - on his lunch hour, to get a "set of pickups that had been gutted from a '78 Strat", which turned out when I saw them still had the pots attached, a complete '78 Strat assembly down to the input jack for... $40. $40? Why didn't I go play Lotto that day? It's like May 31st 2016 and you just bought the guts out of a $78 Strat (with original pickups covers, screws, and springs) for $40, from a guy who runs the music counter at a pawn shop? And he sells on Reverb...

I'm still trying to understand that one (Lucky stars...), but thankful anyway...

So, then, right after finishing the 12 string electric, I find a really cheap '87 vintage Washburn 12 string on CL local, and I go to buy it, and it plays and sounds great, but the top has been smacked in at the pickguard (took me about three days to realize exactly what had happened to it to make it the way it was), three braces are loose (the one under the PG 1/4" down from the top at the end), the bridge is lifting... but the action amazingly is still fine, so I give it to a long time luthier buddy/neighbor of mine, and asked him to "just glue it so I can play it", just a campfire guitar you know... I mean, sh*t, I'm just playing slide on this thing, but the reason why I wanted a DECENT 12 string acoustic was to fingerpick in open tuning, I wear a middle finger slide and can do quite a bit with the other three fingers.

Anyway, I go back over to his house with a piece of 13 ply birch that I sawzalled into the shape he wanted so he could do all the repairs with the bridge on, a clamping/straightening plate to suck the top back into flatness...

Well, when I get there, he's ripped the bridge and pickguard off, and I'm not sure when I'm getting my guitar back... except the "project" seems to get more grandiose by the minute, "making both a bridge and pickguard from scratch, replacing the bridge plate underneath... before I left I forbade him from pulling either the top or any frets... Holy Crap... wrong place at the wrong time, turned out he really needed a project "to keep his sanity" because his kids are drivin him nuts... I'm pretty sure one of those two kids (boys) put something through the top of his '53 D18 a while back... so hopefully the Washburn comes out a better guitar... ;-)

So now enter the world of Guilds... When I realized he'd savagely butchered the Washburn, I went online looking at 12 Strings, and ... pretty soon I'm thinking stop worrying about money, and buy a nice one... And, of course, I was attracted to the Guilds, but they are just a little complicated, so I studied it, cut n' pasted all the right stuff (the internet is an amazing thing, special shoutout to Google Chrome which has just recently changed my life for the much better), and started getting the basics down. If you're not on Chrome, try it, you'll leave the other ones in the dust...

But, I'm still fuzzy on some things, like this F212 vs F30 thing, but there is probably very definitive info out there, books maybe?


Edit, I'm posting this part 2 the next day because the mods had to look over my post and so there was a delay, and I probably figured it out, F-30 etc much fancier, bound neck, big inlays, different headstock, and maple back and sides, quite a different guitar, and to be truthful, as I've seen and played a few over the years, I've never found myself very drawn to the Maple back/sides in a guitar. That's just me.

I just looked through my Gruhn's guide (actual book) to vintage guitars, and to confuse the issue (for me) they made the F112/512 and F-30/F50 in the same years, I was starting to think, same guitars, new model designations with the F30 as a newer run than the F112/512.

But one thing books won't tell you is how good does an F112 sound, say compared to a 212, or a 512? The Guild I used to have was not fancy like a D50, but probably sounded just as good. Because I've always been poor and veered towards cheaper instruments (why is why I was "into vintage before vintage was cool", vintage was the cheaper player gear, and you got laughed at for playing vintage gear...), I've always clung to the notion that for instance my '72 D28 sounds as good as a D35 of the same vintage, it just isn't as fancy, and my tastes run the plain anyway, like favoring turn of the century Arts & Crafts simplicity over intricately carved pieces of antique furniture. Plain is not always bad, but on the D4 that is in the mail, based on the seller's pics (horrible), I'm sort of nervously awaiting for it to get here, so that I can see that it looks better in person than in the pictures, which is what I'm thinking, I've got my hopes up.

Should I even bother pursuing an F112 if I've got a D4-12?

Only having both guitars in the same room would tell you that, but I'd like to hear opinions ;-)



"What a long strange trip it's been..."


PS Dang, I already have an idea for a next topic, what strings to put on your new/old Guild! ;-)

Welcome to LTG.

Congrats on the D4 12 string. D4 was an entry level model, similar to a D25 but with a bit less bling (not that the D25 had much). However, the D4/D25 model is sort of a happy accident, IMO. Intended as an entry-level instrument, but they typically have really good tone.

Guild's model-name nomenclature is all over the map. I think that the short story in this case is that the F112 is the smallest-bodied 12-string, sort of an F30 setup for 12 strings instead of 6. I'd like to try one someday.

F412 is an archback 12-string with maple back & sides. F512 is a flatback 12-string with rosewood b/s.

Others will have more info, I'm sure. Post a photo or two of your new-to-you D4-12 when you can!

Hey GA, welcome to LTG. Wow, that's quite an introduction! I can't address your F questions. But I always thought the F112 was more of an auditorium sized guitar vs. the F30's which are small jumbos to me. But I'm probably wrong. What I do know is that the D4 was a baseline USA made Guild dreadnaught. Spruce top (a very few had mahogany) solid mahogany sides, and a laminated mahogany arched back. Same quality construction as all USA Guilds just way less bling. They sell for not too terribly much and they are highly respected for their quality and tone. Once you get your D4-12, shoot us a report on what you think about it, okay? :encouragement:

sounds like you need a copy of The Guild Guitar Book by Hans Moust!

and his name is Dave Davies

Guildedagain said:

Reviews and videos are actually excellent, so it's a good guitar that is simply not desirable? Or this one just happens to have some dark cloud over it? As I was talking to the seller on the phone about tracking this am (he's in FL, I'm in WA "The EverGreen State" ;-) , literally, lightning flashed (great time to be on a land line, right? ;-) and the house shook from the thunder, what a strange omen... ;-)

Click to expand...

As Spock would say: "Indeed", lol!
Hi Guildedagain, welcome aboard!
I suspect that you'll be likin' that D4-12.
It'll probably be thunderous enough alright. Those archback dread bodies aren't known for being "shy and retiring".

Guildedagain said:

What the F is a (pardon the pun please ;-) is an F122, and to answer my own question it is the bottom of the line of the "12" series, culminating with the ever popular, and PRICEY F512, but... my real question is?
Just how good does an F112 SOUND, compared to a 212? And am I to assume there was a 312, 412?

Click to expand...

I can't speak from experience but the "112" (and I assume "122" was a typo) was slightly smaller than the 212 so I would expect it to be a bit quieter. But only a bit.
Here's a site that has spec sheets for all those models you're asking about, mostly from the period you prefer of '70's-'90s:
http://westerlyguildguitars.com/

Guildedagain said:

Are the F-30, etc, bigger bodied "jumbo" guitars? The F series look like they are all the same body shape, to me, F-30, F-512, etc. What is the difference there, just cosmetics?

Click to expand...

A gross generalization is that as the number went up so did the width of lower bout and depth.
Wood formula also graduated from 'hog to maple to rosewood and cosmetics usually were upgraded too.
Example F50 is 17" bout, F40 is 16", and F30 is 15".
THE 12-string versions follow a similar logic although not always a "logical" number correlation to the 6-string version. An F412 for instance is a 12-string version of an F50 while the 512 is rosewood.
Note also that specs (and even model numbers) changed over time and the specs shown on Westerly Guild Guitar serve as a good generalization but the date of the spec sheet shown should be taken into account if one sees other specs from different production periods.
That oughta getcha started!
:friendly_wink:

Guildedagain said:

End of Part 1, see next post for part two, it would not let me submit it, "over 10000 characters"...

Click to expand...

Yeah, don'tcha hate that? :highly_amused:
Can't see it yet but it might still be waiting moderator screening. First few posts are screened for spammers.

Hey, Guildedagain. And welcome.

Here are the essential F-bodied Guilds from the '70's:

F-112 = 15" lower bout, flat-back mahogany.
F-212 = 16" lower bout, flat-back mahogany.
F-212XL = 17" lower bout, flat-back mahogany
F-312 = 16" lower bout, flat-back rosewood
F-412 = 17" lower bout, arch-back maple
F-512 = 17" lower bout, flat-back rosewood

The F-412 and F-512 were the flagship models, with G-shield headstock, abolone/MOP fret markers and fully bound neck and headstock.

Each model has its own charms. I personally like the larger, 17" F-212XL, F-412 and F-512 because of the added bass response. But the F-112 and F-212 are anything but "budget" guitars.

Since I do have an F-112, I can speak from experience. As has been mentioned, the 112 is a 12-string version of the F30, in fact when I got mine used, it was in a dread case, and I picked up a Guild F-30 case for it, which fits it perfectly.

As far as sound, it's not the huge rich cannon that the larger 12ers are, but it's a nice, full sound in a more compact body. I find it incredibly comfortable to play, either standing or sitting. It's a no bling, hog bodied 12er.

WELCOME TO LTG, Guildedagain!
Well heck, I have a D4-12 and I love it, despite the fact that it's bling-free, but I'm a bling-free guy so we fit well. The trials and tribulations surrounding my D4-12 have been documented here.

The transition of my F-112 to an F112-6 has also been documented. What can I tell you other than I love them both. I play, I don't nesessarily collect, so I'm a happy camper.
:friendly_wink:

Joe

Paul Simon used to play a 112 I believe. At least that was what I thought it was when I saw him in 1967 and again in 1968.

Wow, thx guys, the response is overwhelming ;-)

Hopefully part 2 pops up on the screen here soon, so you can get the rest of the story.

Just barely digesting some of this info I can see that I had wayyyy underestimated Guild capability to be this complicated, and confusing to the casual passerby. And the variety of guitars? Am I mistaken here or does it seem like there is more model diversity than Gibson, a lot more?

Makes you wonder how Guild did not dominate the field... but they came along much later, and maybe... they had to really make some amazing stuff to get as big as they did, and obviously we've all benefited from it, in a huge way, what a legacy of guitars!!!

I was going through some threads and the one "sorry nothing here for sale", I gotta say, wow, so beautiful... and I'm a really picky sob on guitars... and that's the thing, I love acoustic guitars, and Guild made knockouts.

All my other guitars have always been Gibbys or Fender, Dano, a few odd balls, but that's because I'm an electric player. I've had very few acoustics over the years, finally getting that Martin D-28 (I rarely play it, but I'm appreciating it all the sudden while gassing over all of these other vintage acoustics). But at heart, I'm an acoustic player, we all pretty much started on an acoustic, so it's like a reference sound, and there is something about it, it really tugs on your heart strings...

I play electric unplugged most the time, just for the easy action and ease of string bending, and even with the electrics, I very much appreciate the acoustic tone, and I think that is the best way to set up an electric, play it, unplugged, listen to it, fine tune it until it is the best it can be, easy action be damned sometimes...

But the funny thing is... these two big names in electrics aren't my cup of tea at all, and except maybe for one 30's Gibson F hole guitar I once had, and maybe a B25 (memory fading...) I've never had any interest in their acoustic guitars. There were some good one, and some atrocities, the 70's... Looks like Guild never fell prey to that. Even the later guitars, up to the last of the Westerly's have a good reputation regardless of decade, and that really is saying something.

After that, Fender ownership, can't be any worse than the stories of Gibson taking over this and that (Mandolins in Montana, the Dobro Co), and quickly destroying their name (by first destroying the product), and forcing customers to look elsewhere, kinda like the Dobros coming out of California. People want to spend good money on top quality instruments, then the bigger companies see what's going on, buys out the next little guy making great stuff, definitely a "vicious" cycle...

I really feel pulled in by the Guild Acoustics, really classy. If I had the money to buy more guitars, I'd probably find something comparable to my D-28, just to try the two side by side, because there is no surer way to weed out a guitar, one may really speak to you, and that's the direction you go in. I also do this thing (have in the past) where I play it for the missus, but she can't see which guitar it is, I'll say "Guitar #1", and "Guitar #2", and of course (;-) she'll agree with me that the one I like better sounds better, or maybe we both like the same tones.

But then again, "having a Martin", ooooohhh... and that's why I have the damn thing, and I bought it from a fairly well known local musician, so it was a cool transaction. But it's like saying "One day, I'm going to have a Rolex", it's a name. And I can say to the casual observer "I have a vintage Martin", and they're sure to be impressed, whereas if I said I have a vintage Guild, the listener may say something like "what's a Guild?"

But, the thing to do is to impress yourself first, and if you like something, tell other people. If I had a Guild acoustic, and I soon will, I will educate people and tell them, "yeah, a Guild, you should check them out, amazing guitars".

So now, I'm thinking of all the Guilds I've seen and could have had over the years that I didn't, and it kind of pains me a little, that I've paid so little attention to this brand. But hey, I've never owned a single Gretsch either, and that's not because I don't want to, but vintage prices now... ugh... I missed the boat by a little bit.

Speaking about the Guilds I didn't get, so that same wheeler dealer buddy of mine (I mentioned in the refin S-100 thread), had the sweetest red Starfire, '67 maybe, in his living room everytime I went over there, and I'd play it. I could have had it for $600, I'd probably still have it, it was that cool. Pfttttt, to buy that guitar now? It's not gonna happen for me, can't afford it and I can't bear the thought of parting with anything I have to help pay for it, so I'll just have to be content with my hodge podge of guitars, and keep an eye out for good deals on cool gear ;-)

I will definitely post pics and impressions of the D4-12 when it lands here, earlyish next week.

In the meantime, a few pics of some mostly long time friends.

Part 2 is up, a slice of one man's guitar heaven, or hell, depending on how you look at it ;-)

I'm waiting for that D4 just a little bit more all the time, last I heard my luthier buddy was last heard of in Missoula Montana... was supposed to be back days ago, haven't seen hide or hair of him.

I think the Guild was a damn wise move, if I want to be playing a nice flattop 12 string anytime soon. The thing about the F112 that would have been cool would have been a break in the Dreadnaughts for me (two right now, many before), would have been nice to have those two body shapes side by side in the same room.

Dang impulse buys...

Good thing it's not here today, it's the wifey's Bday, that would have been ugly... "Honey [when you're done looking at the couple $20 things I bought you], check THIS out"!!! LOLOLOLLL

But then I could pass it off as serenading her, but still...

She'll hear it soon enough ;-)

On the non-Guild front, what is that resonator you have hanginger on the wall?

Might you be in a trading mood???

Guildedagain said:

Click to expand...

Welcome to LTG Guildagain! What year is that P-Bass? Looks an awful lot like my '73 that I've owned since I was 15.

Guildedagain said:

Just picked up a Guild in my endless quest for guitars... Wasn't trying to buy it, made a minimum bid on a D4-12NT on feeBay, no-one else wanted it apparently, and it is on the way here. Serial number checks out as a 1990. Very early number.

Click to expand...

Hello Guildedagain,

Welcome! The year that you found for your D4-12NT, 1990, is probably a little too early. Not a whole lot, but the model did not exist yet during that year.
Go ahead and give me the last 3 digits of the serial number and I should be able to tell you what year your D4-12NT was made.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

I approve of the Russian Muff.

-Dave-

Thx Hans ;-)

From memory the serial ends in 88, a bunch of zeros and 88, so I figured it was the 88th one off the line for the CH series, I think it was CH?

Neal said:

On the non-Guild front, what is that resonator you have hanginger on the wall?

Might you be in a trading mood???

Click to expand...

Looks like a close relative to your '74, it's a '72 Dobro, from a pawn shop in San Diego (via eBay this last winter), my first Dobro, some cosmetic issues, but for a guy like me who embraces vintage, it's a piece I can test the limits of what I consider "tasteful aging"... Put new GHS Hawaiian strings on it, made a bone nut for it (caused me to FINALLY buy a $150 set of Hosco Japan nut files, which have come in handy about ten times since...), but I never had it apart, it could probably sound better, better set up. I'd like to raise the bridge saddle but I don't see how. It is what it is, and everytime I play it I realize more and more just how good it is, if you do your part.

Right now it's got a 70's Barcus Berry piezo (something I dug out of a suitcase of old cords I haven't been into in a while...) clothespinned to the bridge cover, sound pretty decent in a funky way, but I'm seriously contemplating taking it apart, doing a little fussing over it and putting a decent cone mike in there, so there's that project...

Of course I could never part with it, unless it's perfect... right?

twocorgis said:

Welcome to LTG Guildagain! What year is that P-Bass? Looks an awful lot like my '73 that I've owned since I was 15.

Click to expand...

It's a '73 ;-) No, wait... "it's a '71 or '73", that's what the seller told me (guy was a dead ringer for Walter White, except a foot taller, so I wan't going to argue... One of those quirky transactions, where the guy posted it on CL, but "at his yard sale", and I have to try to convince him that "I will buy it, but it takes me an hour and a half to get to where you live, and I don't want to drive up to see another guy buying it, and he "guaranteed he'd hold it", and when I got there a guy was trying pretty hard to buy it, was pawing it (ohhh, the horror), I had to act disinterested until his lack of diplomacy in bargaining was starting to get the better of him and he finally put it back on the stand and walked away cause the seller was saying "I have a guy coming to look at it at full price", yeah... that guy was me.

So I got it, and even though this IS the quintessential "Relic" that Fender will probably never get right..., the case is freakin pristine, like you wouldn't believe how clean it is, considering the bass.

And, there was a story with it. All quirky stuff. It was "his little sister's bass, selling it for her, she was a very accomplished violin player actually and she'd fell in love with some musician while on tour and moved for France", and was having him sell here stuff, that she had left behind, like whoa... then, more. The bass originally came from a bass player "down in Texas", remember, we're up here in the Northwest. Rainy as hell today too, feelin a little sorry for those working outside, while I'm in here typing all warm and cozy, but definitely not dry, I've been outside for a while...

So, the bass was owned, maybe the original owner in fact, by a Texas Country player, and I'm here to tell you, this is got to have the best looking belt buckle rash I've ever seen on a Fender. I could probably do quite well selling pictures of this belt buckle rash to would be Relic-ers (that a word? ;-), the is the grandaddy of belt buckle rashes, nevermind a little gloss finish gone, this one goes way into the (Ash?) body, lots of grain visible, all with fantastic patina, you're not going to get any splinters touching it.

Anyway, so it's a '73 ;-) Or a '71. But I'll tell you what, it's such a great bass, I've never even lifted the pickguard on there to look, I don't even care, and the electronics don't even work that good, the volume pot feels like it's dragging when you back it off (that p'up needs to be backed of a hair if you want to keep the speakers in your cab/s), and I've never had a hankering to look under the skirt, fix anything, it's "as found", with a little bit more Mojo, it's spent months and months out of the year in my music shed, been over 100º in summer, below zero probably (It's free Cryogenics around here in the winter, but I eventually I bring it in for the rest of winter), and it may have additional crazing since I got it, but I doubt it, there wasn't much room left for it. Fully matured, I'd say. Dripping with cool Mojo and tone...

It's got Rotosound flatwound 105's on it. I kinda miss roundwound strings sometimes...

Quantum Strummer said:

I approve of the Russian Muff.

-Dave-

Click to expand...

Somebody muzzle me please before I..mmmfmfmf.....

Guildedagain said:

Makes you wonder how Guild did not dominate the field... but they came along much later, and maybe... they had to really make some amazing stuff to get as big as they did, and obviously we've all benefited from it, in a huge way, what a legacy of guitars!!!

Click to expand...

For one thing they simply never had the capacity of M and G, were always an underdog.
But some of us love underdogs.

Guildedagain said:

Even the later guitars, up to the last of the Westerly's have a good reputation regardless of decade, and that really is saying something.
After that, Fender ownership, can't be any worse than the stories of Gibson taking over this and that (Mandolins in Montana, the Dobro Co), and quickly destroying their name (by first destroying the product), and forcing customers to look elsewhere, kinda like the Dobros coming out of California. People want to spend good money on top quality instruments, then the bigger companies see what's going on, buys out the next little guy making great stuff, definitely a "vicious" cycle...

Click to expand...

I gotta admit I thought that was Fender's business model when I saw 'em introduce the GAD Made in China line in '04.
We gotta getcha up to speed:
Fender actually acquired Guild in '95 so last 5 years of Westerly were actually first 5 years under Fender, not widely understood out on the general internet.
We have a member here who worked in Westerly at the time, who took pains many years ago to explain that Westerly QC under Fender was at its zenith.
NOT that the guitars were necessarily better but that Fender implemented production controls like checklists to ensure that every guitar got QC'd properly.
There's a few of us here who believe that Fender Westerlys were the best.
I've got 2, see my sig.
AS for Corona ('02-'04), yes there were some teething problems but a lot of the bad rep is so much internet hype and myth.
"They don't get no respeck".
I've got a Corona D40 and in truth, it was somewhat underwhelming acoustically when I first got it, and that's the most common complaint about Coronas, but it finally started getting a voice after about 9 years.
Note when I bought it I didn't even play it because of my experience with my first 2.
But I thought I better get one last domestic built Guild while I still could, thinking Fender was about to make 'em just another offshore badge engineered brand.
The build quality of my Corona is every bit as good as Westerly and the finish is the best of all 3, and that was Corona's other primary "weak spot", probably because they installed a brand new spray booth in Corona but had no experience in NCL finishing so again, "teething pains".
At close of Corona, liquidated a lot of perfectly good inventory without warranty at fire sale pricing, fueling dealer resentment and a perception of serious quality issues.
In spite of all that the Corona dissatisfaction percentage is still pretty low, I've guesstimated about 15% based on memory of posts from new owners.
Repeated the process in Tacoma, which still manages to retain a good quality rep, but by now dealers're gettin' leery of Fender's constant juggling of the brand and a lot of owners here are gettin' pretty irritated about the lack of support and promotion which you correctly mention.
Through all that and even up through New Hartford, until 2014, one has to concede that Fender kept the brand alive and producing top-quality domestic built instruments until the money finally ran out.
And while I have no experience with Tacoma or New Hartford builts, plenty of other owners here do and have offered credible testimony (based on experience with several factories) to their quality.
Some of 'em even think New Hartfords are the best ever, and that was under Fender.
After they killed off Hamer and Ovation domestic production.
(Just tryin' to maintain an even-handed perspective, here....)
Anyway, there's the "short course" about Fender and Guild.

Guildedagain said:

But, the thing to do is to impress yourself first, and if you like something, tell other people. If I had a Guild acoustic, and I soon will, I will educate people and tell them, "yeah, a Guild, you should check them out, amazing guitars".

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That's how I fund mine. Was looking to replace a stolen MIK Fender acoustic, was determined to buy new and American, was experiencing severe sticker shock, and my best buddy who owned an '87 Guild JF30-12 said exactly that, adding: "Fender just bought 'em"

Guildedagain said:

I will definitely post pics and impressions of the D4-12 when it lands here, earlyish next week

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Last note, lest you misinterpret Joe's comment about his D4-12, the "tribulations" were a reference to damage repair on a headstock broken in shipping, not to any build flaws.
"Keep us posted"!

Guildedagain said:

It's a '73 ;-) No, wait... "it's a '71 or '73", that's what the seller told me (guy was a dead ringer for Walter White, except a foot taller, so I wan't going to argue... One of those quirky transactions, where the guy posted it on CL, but "at his yard sale", and I have to try to convince him that "I will buy it, but it takes me an hour and a half to get to where you live, and I don't want to drive up to see another guy buying it, and he "guaranteed he'd hold it", and when I got there a guy was trying pretty hard to buy it, was pawing it (ohhh, the horror), I had to act disinterested until his lack of diplomacy in bargaining was starting to get the better of him and he finally put it back on the stand and walked away cause the seller was saying "I have a guy coming to look at it at full price", yeah... that guy was me.

So I got it, and even though this IS the quintessential "Relic" that Fender will probably never get right..., the case is freakin pristine, like you wouldn't believe how clean it is, considering the bass.

And, there was a story with it. All quirky stuff. It was "his little sister's bass, selling it for her, she was a very accomplished violin player actually and she'd fell in love with some musician while on tour and moved for France", and was having him sell here stuff, that she had left behind, like whoa... then, more. The bass originally came from a bass player "down in Texas", remember, we're up here in the Northwest. Rainy as hell today too, feelin a little sorry for those working outside, while I'm in here typing all warm and cozy, but definitely not dry, I've been outside for a while...

So, the bass was owned, maybe the original owner in fact, by a Texas Country player, and I'm here to tell you, this is got to have the best looking belt buckle rash I've ever seen on a Fender. I could probably do quite well selling pictures of this belt buckle rash to would be Relic-ers (that a word? ;-), the is the grandaddy of belt buckle rashes, nevermind a little gloss finish gone, this one goes way into the (Ash?) body, lots of grain visible, all with fantastic patina, you're not going to get any splinters touching it.

Anyway, so it's a '73 ;-) Or a '71. But I'll tell you what, it's such a great bass, I've never even lifted the pickguard on there to look, I don't even care, and the electronics don't even work that good, the volume pot feels like it's dragging when you back it off (that p'up needs to be backed of a hair if you want to keep the speakers in your cab/s), and I've never had a hankering to look under the skirt, fix anything, it's "as found", with a little bit more Mojo, it's spent months and months out of the year in my music shed, been over 100º in summer, below zero probably (It's free Cryogenics around here in the winter, but I eventually I bring it in for the rest of winter), and it may have additional crazing since I got it, but I doubt it, there wasn't much room left for it. Fully matured, I'd say. Dripping with cool Mojo and tone...

It's got Rotosound flatwound 105's on it. I kinda miss roundwound strings sometimes...

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I've had Rotosound rounds on mine for its entire life, and they sound great. That headstock decal was used from 1968 to 1976, so theoretically that bass could be any one of those years. Mine has J neck on it now, and a Lindy Fralin pup, and despite all the other basses I own, it's still my go-to.